S31 || Discipline and the Narrow Path || Hebrews 12:7-17 || Session 31

Ever wonder whether the hard things you face are shaping you or just wearing you down? We continue in Hebrews chapter 12 and make a clear, practical case that God’s loving discipline is not random pain but purposeful formation that yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness. Through vivid images of vines trained on a trellis, soldiers formed by standards, and children guided by wise parents, we explore how belonging to God reframes endurance, courage, and daily obedience.

We also draw a sharp line between pain and providence. Not every hardship comes from God, but every son and daughter should expect His training. That insight dismantles the myth that everyone is automatically God’s child and highlights the hope of adoption through Jesus Christ. From there, we move into the practices that keep us steady when our hands shake and our knees weaken: stay in the Word, ask for wisdom, make straight paths, and actively pursue peace with everyone and sanctification before God. Peace isn’t passive; it is the byproduct of a life aligned with righteousness.

The conversation gets honest about threats that quietly sabotage our walk. A root of bitterness can start with a real wound, then grow into murmuring, envy, and a sour spirit that spills into community. The antidote is decisive forgiveness and releasing the offense to God before it becomes a forest. We also address sexual immorality as a powerful entanglement, showing why Spirit-led restraint and community help are essential. Esau’s choice to trade his birthright for a meal offers a sobering warning: some decisions close doors we cannot easily reopen. Value the promises of God over momentary relief, and you’ll find a durable peace the world cannot give.

If this resonates, follow along as we keep reasoning through the Bible with clear teaching, practical steps, and hope that endures. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs courage today, and leave a review with one takeaway you’re putting into practice this week.

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Theme: Discipline And Goals
• 0:44 Opening Hebrews 12 And Today’s Focus
• 1:33 Discipline Defined: Vines, Soldiers, Children
• 6:43 Pain, Providence, And What God Allows
• 10:42 Sons, Illegitimacy, And Who God Disciplines
• 14:24 Peaceful Fruit Of Righteousness Explained
• 18:17 Strengthen Hands And Knees: Stay The Course
• 22:06 Pursue Peace And Holiness In Practice
• 26:32 Uprooting Bitterness Before It Spreads
• 31:26 Sexual Immorality, Esau, And Irrevocable Choices
• 35:33 Closing And Preview: Old Vs New Covenant

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:20

Most everyone who's ever achieved something great has had to do so with a sense of focus, and they very often had to endure some hardship along the way. They've had to have a goal in mind, and they've had to work towards that goal, and sometimes had to make great sacrifices in order to achieve that goal. The greater the goal, often the greater the sacrifice. We're going to learn about that in relation to our Christian walk today on reasoning through the Bible. Hi, my name's Glenn. I'm here with Steve. We've been reasoning our way through the book of Hebrews. I trust that you'll open your Bible to Hebrews chapter 12. We're in the section of the book that's going to talk about how we live. The writer is giving us instructions on what do we do on a daily basis to live this Christian life. We are in a world that is very messed up, and we are often messed up, but only through keeping our eyes on Jesus will we be able to strengthen our weak hands, strengthen our weak knees, and stay on the path of righteousness. Steve, can you start at Hebrews 12, 7 and read down to verse 11?

SPEAKER_00: 1:33

It is for discipline that you endure. God deals with you as with sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them. Shall we not much rather be subject to the father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, so that we may share his holiness. All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful. Yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.

SPEAKER_01: 2:29

As we mentioned last time, discipline merely means doing things the same way every time or the right way every time. It can mean punishment, but as a general rule, it means turning things or twisting them into the direction it needs to go. I always think of growing grapes. If you've ever grown a grapevine, then the vines and the branches tend to go everywhere. Whereas the orchardist, the person that is growing the grapes, have to pull the branches down and often tie them down so that they will get the right sunlight and be the right shape so that later they can pick the fruit. If the branches were just allowed to go any direction, it wouldn't make fruit and it would be very difficult to pick it. The master gardener, the orchardist, bends and shapes the branches of the vine in order to go where he needs them to go. He is disciplining the vine. If the branch grows easily in that direction, then it is less painful. If the branch wants to go in a completely different direction, then it turns into quite a bit of pain for the vine to pull it and to tie it down. The same is true for, for example, a soldier in the military. The military has to teach great discipline so that all the soldiers do things the same way every time. They always follow orders. All militaries have rules and regulations. And if a soldier follows all of those rules, then they are a disciplined soldier. If the soldier violates the rules, then the leadership is going to teach them discipline and it's going to be quite painful. Same thing with a parent raising a child in our case here with us following the Lord. We can learn discipline, and it may seem painful, but it is for our good in the long run. Verse six does end up having a word that means chastise or scourge every son whom he receives. But because we are weak, God does have to punish us sometimes. Verse 7, it is for discipline that you endure, it says, Well, endure what? Well, endure the chastisement of the Lord. We endure the painful things that God allows in our lives so that we will earn righteousness and holiness and the fruit of the Christian life. Steve, what else can we see in this passage that we just read?

SPEAKER_00: 5:01

Well, I think a lot of it, it's a continuation of our last session of talking about discipline. And one of the words of discipline that is used here, the Greek word means to instruct, originally instruction of children. Then another one that is used also means originally to bring up a child, to educate, use of activity directed toward the moral and spiritual nurturing and training of the child. In other words, to influence the conscious and the will. That is what the word discipline means here. So as we've talked about in our last session, and as you've talked about here at the beginning of this one, this discipline is something in order to direct or give a correct path to somebody. And it might sometimes mean chastising somebody or something for a purpose or a reason. But for the most part, it is to get somebody moving in the right direction with the right thought, the right training. Once again, this is all for the benefit of having a good and correct relationship with Jesus Christ and with God the Father.

SPEAKER_01: 6:16

These verses say more than once that if you are a child of God, then you're going to endure some pain, things that he's doing to shape your life. I think we need to be very careful with that because he says very clearly that there is going to be some painful things. That was the thrust of the passage. But we endure these painful things for a season because afterwards it will yield fruit and righteousness. Now, what it does not say is that just because you have something painful in your life, then God's causing it. It doesn't say that and it doesn't mean it. It works like this: all horses have four legs. Every horse has four legs, but it doesn't mean that everything with four legs is a horse. Every child of God is going to endure some pain, but it doesn't mean that every bit of pain is caused by God. God can use pain to train us to do what he wants us to do. Sometimes the pain is caused by my own sin, or it may be caused by things that we just don't know why. But we do know, and what this passage is clearly saying, is that as children of God, we can expect some discipline. We can expect some training. We can expect some pain to come in our lives. With that, we can endure it for a season because if we just fix our eyes on the goal, then we'll see the righteousness and the beauty of the other side. Every discipline seems painful at the time. I think of disciplining a or teaching a three-year-old or a four-year-old and correcting them that you should not eat the candy. Well, to the child, it's the worst thing that ever happened in the world, but they really need to eat solid food. Once they grow up eating the solid food, they'll realize that you shouldn't eat candy all the time and they will thank the parent for teaching them that. But at the time, when they were three or four, they thought it was the worst thing in the world. Steve, what happens if we had a child from the time it was small until the time it was grown, the parents never teach them to live a disciplined life?

SPEAKER_00: 8:29

They end up having a warp perspective on what life is about. What I mean by that is that much of life is getting along in society with other people. How do you interact with them? Showing respect for elders, showing love for family members, those type of things. How to act properly whenever you're in public, things like that. And if you don't discipline the child, going back to that terminology and definition that I used a while ago to direct them and make them realize this is what you need to do in this situation, then they have a warp perspective and sometimes don't really know how to act in a society. That's what can happen. If you just let your children run free, do whatever they want to, well, another thing that's detrimental to them is that they will pick up bad habits from other children and from other people because they don't know any better. As parents, we have the duty to discipline, to educate, to train our children in the ways that they should go.

SPEAKER_01: 9:42

If we look at verse eight, it raises a question. Why does God not discipline every human? I asked that question because of this. It seems like if we look around us in our churches, we have good-hearted Christians that are doing their best to live good lives, but they still have pain and tragedy that comes into their lives that God can use to teach things. But then if we look outside in the world, we see pagans and lost people that are just wholly given over to sin, and God's not out there correcting them. God just lets them go. They don't have the pain entering their lives yet. Why is it that God can discipline his own children and then let others go wild in the world without disciplining them?

SPEAKER_00: 10:32

Well, let's look at what it meant in the Jewish society, because again, this author is writing to Jewish believers of an illegitimate child. That means that they couldn't marry into Jewish society, they couldn't have an inheritance, and they also couldn't be buried in a Jewish cemetery. When you look at it that way, then the people understood that these were consequences of being a illegitimate child in a Jewish sense. Therefore, it gave them a reason to not become an illegitimate child and to want that discipline so that they didn't lose those things that I just mentioned, the ability to be within the Jewish community. As we look at this and to answer your question, why does God go with some? I think it has to do with the people themselves. If they know what the consequences are, then they might want to turn back to God. But I've seen people that have downright said, I don't want to have anything to do with God, nothing. I want him to leave me alone. I want you to leave me alone and don't talk to me about him. I just want to go off and live my life. And in the afterlife, if there is one, I don't want to have anything to do with God at all either. When a person reaches that stage, then what is it for a loving person to do? A loving person will just let them go. That I think is what sometimes happens with God. God just turns them over to themselves, lets them go, because they've made it plain and clear that they don't want to have anything to do with him.

SPEAKER_01: 12:16

I think that's very wise. That's one of the exact answers, is that some people don't want anything to do with God. So therefore, they are not his children. If we ask the question, why does God discipline his own children and he doesn't discipline the pagans, it's because they're not his children. A parent disciplines their own children. They don't discipline the other kids that are live across town from them. Just like a human father corrects his own son, then the heavenly father corrects his own children. Again, verse 8 says, if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. And again, the all have become partakers. It means all Christians, all in the church. If you're without discipline, then you're illegitimate children. Now, that idea of there being legitimate children of God and illegitimate children of God defeats a false doctrine that's been taught in various circles over the years that says that all people are God's children. The name on it that gets put sometimes is the universal fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man. It simply says that God is the father of all people on earth and that all are God's children. The Bible teaches exactly the opposite. Here, Hebrews 12.8 says some people are illegitimate, not sons of God. Ephesians 2.3, Paul speaking at the Ephesian church says we were all formerly children of wrath. Galatians 4.5 and Ephesians 1.5 both say Christians are adopted to be sons of God. If we had to be adopted, then we did not start out as children of God. Colossians 1.13 says that Christians had to be delivered from the domain of darkness and transferred into the kingdom of Christ. It is not true that all people are God's children. The only people who are God's children are those who accept Jesus as Savior. The others are illegitimate and not children of the Father. I think that's very clear from Scripture. It says in verse 11 here in Hebrews 12, 11, all discipline seems for the moment to be sorrowful. I think that we can take again the example of the child taking away the candy seems, oh, the world's coming to an end. But same with us. If we get to heaven, we'll look back on all the sorrows that we had here and say, how could I have been sorrow for such a small thing when uh it really taught me some great things that I can use in my heavenly role? The end of verse nine says, After we learn God's discipline way of life, we get, quote, the peaceful fruit of righteousness. Steve, how can righteousness bring peace?

SPEAKER_00: 15:10

Because the righteousness means that we have a right standing with God. We get that through belief and trust in Jesus Christ, in his sacrifice, his death, burial, and resurrection. So God looks at Jesus before he looks at us, so to speak, in the blood that was shed, as it was talked about in the earlier chapters here, where Jesus goes into the actual tabernacle in heaven and takes the blood of his sacrifice in there. God views us through Jesus Christ's blood, and therefore we are found to be righteous. We have a righteous and right standing with God. Well, how can we not be happy about that? If we try to do it on our own, we would never be able to have a right standing before God. But through faith and trust and belief in Jesus Christ, we can have that right standing. That's such a wonderful thing.

SPEAKER_01: 16:09

The phrase there is the peaceful fruit of righteousness. I submit that when we learn to obey God's commands, then we will live in peace. When we live in sin, we do not have peace. Sin does not bring peace. Sin brings upheaval and it brings self-torture. We can indeed in this life have peace with God. How? When we are reconciled to Him, when He takes away all of our burden of sin, when He takes away all of our burden of trying to live a right life. You know, the person that commits a sin, they know it. Just like the person in the world, if they commit a crime, they know it's wrong. They know it's a crime. They know the police are out there looking for them, and they never really can relax. They can't ever really just walk down the street without worrying that they're going to be arrested. They can't sleep at night without worrying whether the authorities are going to come in and find them. They are never at peace. Why? Because they've committed a crime. But if somebody pays for the crime and now their record is wiped clean, then they can walk down the street in peace. They can walk down the street without having to worry whether they're going to get arrested or not. Apart from getting right with God through Jesus, there is no peace in the world. Our lives will always be in upheaval. But if we learn through the Holy Spirit to fall into the Lord's arms and obey his commands, we no longer have a cloud of guilt hanging over us. We can rest and relax in his righteousness and just enjoy him. That is the beauty of the Christian life. My friend, if you've ever looked at Christianity from afar and thinking, well, I feel so guilty or I might have to give up too many things, my friend, on this side of Christ, it is peace. You will never have the peace that is beyond understanding apart from Jesus. Such a great teaching here. Steve, can you start at verse 12 and read down through verse 17?

SPEAKER_00: 18:17

Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and knees that are feeble, and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed. Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God, that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, by it many be defiled. That there be no immoral or godless person like Esau who sold his own birthright for a single meal. For you know that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears.

SPEAKER_01: 19:11

In verses twelve and thirteen, in the context of this chapter, what does it mean when it says, strengthen the hands and the knees and make the path straight for your feet and heal that which is lame? What is that talking about?

SPEAKER_00: 19:26

I think that it has to do with the concept of enduring, of us working through the life that we have and the things that we go through. So he's giving description here of strengthening the hands as we go through life and the knees that we have to make sure that we're on that straight path of the correction and things like that. I believe it all has to do in the context of what he's talking about for us to work through this life, keep on the straight path of the race that we're running with keeping Jesus. In front of us, and have these witnesses that are watching us and cheering us on. The Father is disciplining us, training us up in the right way. But I think it all has to do with that context that he's talking about.

SPEAKER_01: 20:13

I think you're exactly right. The context is how do we walk the Christian walk, live the Christian life? It means to keep the faith. There's what he's saying, strengthen your hands and your knees, keep the faith, stay on the right, straight path, obey God's holy commands, ask God to strengthen us so that we can continue in doing his will and enjoying him forever. God recognizes that our hands are weak and he knows that our feet often stray from the narrow path. Hebrews gave us a long list of people in the last chapter. When we went through that, chapter 11, we pointed out many, if not all of them, were have some flaws in their life. They had some issues, they had some failures. Here he's giving us instructions. Ask God to strengthen us so that we can stay on the straight path. Chapter 12 is giving us encouragement to stay the course. The earlier parts of the book of Hebrews were talking a lot about doctrine and theology. Here it's very practical shoe leather. How do we live on a daily basis to get through this Christian life and still to stay true to Him and still enjoy this life in peace? When we get tempted to give up our faith, or we get tempted to stray from the narrow path, what should we do, Steve? What can we do on a practical way? When we get tempted, our hands are weak, our knees are weak, we're tempted to fall into sin or tempted to stop doing our Christian work. What should we do on a practical basis?

SPEAKER_00: 21:50

Well, I think we practically we should take it to the Lord and that we should ask Him for guidance and ask Him for wisdom. I think to carry that even further as we go through these verses here, starting in verse 14, He gives us one type of uh thing that we can do practically pursue peace with all men. When you think about that, that is something that is you take upon yourself to actively do. Pursue means that you are taking it upon yourself to take the initiative. I think that that's it. You don't allow yourself to be pulled into things and blown about by the wind of society and what's popular now, that you set your mind on a goal and that you pursue it. You go on to it. And as you get to these points in your life, you take it to the Lord, ask him, like I said before, for wisdom on how to handle it and how to deal with it, and that you purposely work your way through the life that we have here, staying close to Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01: 23:00

Many people get to a point in their life where they feel like quitting, they feel like going astray. My friend, you're not alone. That's why Hebrews 12 was written. So, my suggestion on what to do on a practical basis, how about read Hebrews chapter 12? That's a real good place to start and then continue in the word of God. Paul told us faith comes by hearing the word of God. That's the place to start. This specific chapter, Hebrews 12, is there to encourage us. Go to the Psalms that help us to reach out to God when we are needing strength. In verse 14, it tells us two things to pursue: peace with all people and holiness or sanctification. These remind us, at least reminds me, of Jesus' command when he said, What is the first and greatest command is to love God and love our neighbor. If we have those things, then oftentimes we will be at peace. This is what I think of is stay in the Word of God and our faith will be built. Pursue peace with all people, it says. Christians are to work at trying to be at peace and trying to be friendly with everyone. We are not to take our own revenge, but to our strive and try hard to be good neighbors to everyone, to be at peace with people. When we have a falling out with someone, when we can tell there's a tension there, then go to that person and make peace. We're told this several times in the gospel. He tells us to make peace with people before we go up and worship God. Verse 15 says there, quote, see to it that no one comes short of the grace of God, unquote. It's telling us to live up to the high standard of holiness that God sets before us. Quite difficult. How can we then keep ourselves from falling short of the grace of God?

SPEAKER_00: 24:58

By appropriating the grace that has been given to us and to pursue peace with all people and understand that we have been forgiven through grace, and therefore we need to give grace to others, that we fall short because we don't do that. The parable that was told of the man that owed a great sum of money. The sum of money that was spoken of was something that he would never ever be able to repay in his lifetime. The master that he owed that to was gracious to him and forgave him the debt. Yet what did he immediately do? He went out to somebody else that owed him some money, which was very minuscule compared to what he had just been forgiven of, and he beat the man. He demanded that the man pay him the money now. That I think is a picture of what it's talking about here. The failure to appropriate the grace that has been given to us, that is something that we means that we're gonna fall short in relation to that grace that has been given to us. Pursue peace with all people, be gracious to all people. And also it says there the sanctification that we should also pursue, setting ourselves apart from the worldly ways, something that we should also do.

SPEAKER_01: 26:28

It uses a phrase here in verse 15, root of bitterness. He says, See to it that no one has a root of bitterness springing up to cause trouble, and by it many be defiled. I find it interesting that he uses this language, a root of bitterness. Well, a root of something will eventually grow and sprout into something larger. What is it talking about with bitterness being a root? What happens to a person when bitterness takes root and starts to grow?

SPEAKER_00: 27:02

You've used something throughout our teaching through the years, Glenn, that I've picked up. You say that some people just wake up in the morning or that they live their life like they eat lemons all the time. I think that gives a picture because when you eat lemons, you get a sour pussy. Here, root of bitterness, it's can lead to murmuring. The bitterness that is harbored in people's heart grows into various things hatred, jealousy, other types of things that aren't good. It's not a root of being pleasant, it's a root of bitterness. What does murmuring bring? Murmuring brings that you get with other people and you talk bad about others. You're always looking at the downside of what others do. Well, you're not certainly not going to pursue peace with all people if you're out there murmuring against some people. That is something that, again, the author is telling them practically, you need to avoid that. You need to avoid this bitterness that can take root in your life and lead to various negative things that would bring about things that aren't positive. And it also gets between you and the relationship with God as well, because you don't have the right spirit. As I mentioned, you're not trying to pursue peace with all men or the sanctification. You are trying to get up in other people's business and trying to rally maybe other people to your side against somebody else. It's just a bad situation all the way around.

SPEAKER_01: 28:41

If we take this illustration, a root of bitterness. Well, if we ask why people become bitter, very often it's because someone else has legitimately wronged us. Someone else has treated us wrongly, and we have a legitimate beef to say I was wronged. The problem is in this world, we're never going to have everything work out exactly right. Oftentimes we are wronged. The other person that wronged us goes on about their lives, and we are left with this root of bitterness because I was treated badly. I was wronged. But if we let that root of bitterness grow, then who is the one that turns really bitter? It's us. We're the ones that suffer. If we allow bitterness to grow in our lives, then it makes us bitter and we suffer. The other person isn't suffering because I'm feeling bitter. Bitterness starts small, but it'll grow and it'll sprout and it'll turn into a forest that takes over our entire view of life. We've all probably met people that were legitimately wronged at some point in the past, but they've let this bitterness grow and grow, and now it's consumed them to where everything in their life, they're just a very bitter person. One tiny root of bitterness can sprout and take over. When we allow another person to plant a root of bitterness in us, then we suffer. The end of verse 15 says that if one person becomes bitter, then many people will be defiled. One person turns bitter, it tends to affect others as well. What is a practical way to avoid being bitter towards someone else? Even if sometimes I was legitimately wronged, how can I keep that from taking root in me and making me bitter?

SPEAKER_00: 30:39

You turn it over to the Lord and you let him handle it and turn them over to the Lord and just get it out of your life. Now, I know that that's hard to do sometimes because you just got through describing it, that they move on with their life, and yet you're left with the result of it. But as you pointed out, it leads to bitterness in our own life. So the best thing to do is learn early on the better as you're a young person in life. Turn it over to the Lord, let him handle it, and you move on with your life. That way you don't bring about or cause this root to take hold that can make so much of a negative impact on your life.

SPEAKER_01: 31:22

Verse 16 cautions us to avoid sexual immorality. Sexual sins are another type of sin that so easily entangles us, is the language that used earlier in the chapter. People have fleshly desires that without God's spirit to restrain us, these desires will carry us away and take us very far away from God. Oftentimes, sexual desires consume people and take them over. We've all probably met people that were wholly and entirely given over to their own lusts. People were consumed by this and it eats them. Romans 1.24 says that God has given some people over to their own lust. That means there's a general restraint in the world and a restraint in our lives. And if we fall into the arms of Christ, he'll give us the Holy Spirit that will restrain us even further. He'll give us people around us to help us contain our lusts. But if we stay away from Christ, then there comes a time where God will give us over to our own lusts. Steve, I just find that to be a real tragedy.

SPEAKER_00: 32:35

The lusts of our life are things that are like jealousy, wanting other things that other people have, not being content with the life that we have. I think also not realizing who we are in Christ and what we have. We have so many great things. Now, it goes along with what the writer of Hebrews is talking about. We're not going to realize the vast majority of those things until later, until our afterlife, until our glorified body and we've gone to the other side. But isn't that what he's been talking about all throughout chapter 11 and now going into chapter 12, giving us the practical way to live our life? It's still there. We still need to be looking to the afterlife and the things that we have there because it's going to be so much better there. And those things are going to be something that lasts for eternity. We shouldn't get caught up in the lusts of the worldly things today because all that is temporal. It's all things that are not going to be lasting.

SPEAKER_01: 33:42

In these verses, it also says, see to it that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau. And if you remember, Esau sold his birthright for a single bowl of stew. He did not care about his birthright. Hebrews 12, 16 is saying that not caring about the Lord's blessings and the Lord's things is on an equal par with sexual immorality. And I think we need to take that very seriously. If we don't take value in the promises of the Lord, that is just as immoral as sexual immorality. And I find that to be very sobering in this chapter. Again, very practical things that the writer of Hebrews is teaching us about how to live our lives. Avoid sexual immorality. Don't let a bitterness get into your lives. Take and make sure there's no gross immorality in your congregation. Steve, I just find this to be very, very practical.

SPEAKER_00: 34:46

You know, and in this story of Esau is that this was a conscious decision that he made. And it was an irrevocable decision. It says there, even though he later wanted the blessing of the birthright, he was rejected, even though he came with uh tears to receive that blessing. This again goes with the theme that the writer of Hebrews is making is that don't be lured into an irrevocable decision that brings about something in your life that has a detriment to it here. Again, not something that has to deal with your salvation. These are all believers, but yet be conscious of the decisions that we make on this earthly life that we're living now.

SPEAKER_01: 35:31

That's all for today because of time. But be back with us next time as we're going to discuss the parts of the chapter that contrast the giving of the old covenant with the new covenant. We're going to see some great contrast there. We're going to see some terrible things in the old and some great things in the new. And I'm sure you'll want to be here as we reason through that.

SPEAKER_00: 35:54

Thank you so much for watching and listening. May God bless you.