Reasoning Through the Bible
Reasoning Through the Bible is a verse-by-verse Bible study podcast dedicated to teaching Scripture from chapter one, verse one, with careful attention to historical context, theology, and faithful application.
Each episode offers in-depth, expository teaching rooted in the authority of the biblical text and the shared foundations of the historic Christian faith. While taught from an evangelical perspective, this podcast warmly welcomes all Christians seeking deeper engagement with God’s Word.
Designed for listeners who desire serious Bible study rather than topical devotionals, Reasoning Through the Bible explores entire books of Scripture in an orderly and thoughtful manner—examining authorship, setting, theological themes, and the meaning of each passage within the whole of Scripture.
Whether you are studying the Bible personally, teaching in the Church, or simply longing to grow in understanding and faith, this podcast aims to encourage careful listening to God’s Word through faithful, verse-by-verse exposition.
Reasoning Through the Bible
S32 || From Mount Sinai to Mount Zion || Hebrews 12:18-29 || Session 32
Fire, darkness, a trumpet blast that made people beg for silence—and then an unexpected turn toward warmth and welcome. We finish our walk through Hebrews chapter 12 to explore why Mount Sinai made even Moses tremble, and how Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, invites us into a city alive with promise. The law reveals our need but can’t rescue us. Jesus does what The Law [Torah] could never do: He transforms, reconciles, and anchors us in a kingdom that cannot be shaken.
We dig into the layered language of Mount Zion and the “city of the living God,” showing how Scripture holds both a present approach and a future arrival. You’ll hear how Abel’s blood cried out for justice while Jesus’ blood speaks a better word—peace, forgiveness, and a clean conscience. Along the way, we wrestle with Hebrews’ sober warning: if Sinai shook the earth, ignoring the Son shakes heaven and earth. That gravity isn’t meant to paralyze you; it’s meant to steady you. Gratitude becomes fuel for service. Reverence becomes the posture of true worship. Awe is not a mood—it’s a way of life.
We also get practical: how do we cultivate gratitude in a comfort-driven culture? What does it look like to serve with reverence and awe, not just warm a seat? Why does a right view of God—as love and as a consuming fire—restore our joy and our obedience? If you’ve felt the weight of trying to be “enough,” or the drift that comes from settling for rituals, this conversation calls you back to the better priest, better covenant, and better sacrifice.
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May God Bless you!! - Glenn and Steve
Talk to many religious people. They're going to tell you that the Old Testament law is a beautiful thing. And the Bible tells us that it's the perfect law of God. The issue that comes up many times is when we actually think about what happened at Mount Sinai. The giving of the law was a very scary, frightful thing. Today, on Reasoning Through the Bible, we're going to be studying the section of the book of Hebrews when he contrasts the very scary, frightful giving of the Mosaic Law with the new covenant, which is very warm and very accepting. So open your Bibles to Hebrews chapter 12 and let's go ahead and dive in. Steve, can you read Hebrews 12:18 down to verse 24?
SPEAKER_01:For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words, which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them. For they could not bear the command, if even a beast touches the mountain, it will be stoned. And so terrible was the sight that Moses said, I am full of fear and trembling. But you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
SPEAKER_00:We said early on in the study of Hebrews that there was a great literature in this book, great descriptive language. And we're seeing more of that. We didn't get out of the book until we saw another great descriptive paragraph with wonderful language that gives this very accurate description of the giving of the Old Testament law and contrasting it with the New Covenant. The giving of the law to Moses on Mount Sinai was a very scary, very frightful thing. Remember, there were earthquakes and lightning and thunder. And it says here in Hebrews 12, 21 that even Moses was afraid. And so, Steve, when we see this contrast, what do we think of? Because he talks here about the blast of a trumpet, darkness, gloom, and a whirlwind, the sound that people were just begging that the sound go away. What do you think of when you see this contrast between these two covenants?
SPEAKER_01:This is the story of what you mentioned of when the law was given on Mount Sinai and all the depiction there of the people, that they couldn't approach the mountain. They couldn't touch it. In fact, not even an animal could touch it. And they saw the lightning and the trumpets and the sound and the rumbling that was going on, which was very frightful to them while Moses was up there receiving the commandments and the laws from God. They were a people that were in awe of the God that had led them out of Egypt. It's a contrast of the God that was giving the law, and they were to be separated from him. And even in the laws that he gave, as we've talked about in the tabernacle, there was a group of people that was to represent the people that was the tribe of Levi. They were to be the priests. They were to go and be representatives with God. But now with the new covenant, we have Jesus Christ as our high priest. He has sprinkled his blood. We can go boldly into the throne room of God. So it's a juxtaposed between the first giving of the law, that covenant with the people where they were really separate from God because of who he was and the holiness that he had, the separation from them, versus now the new covenant, where we have a more of a personal relationship with God. And we now don't have to go through all the machinations of sacrifices and all those other things in order to have a direct relationship with God. To me, it's just a great comparison between the old covenant of the law, the Torah, and the new covenant of Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_00:The Apostle Paul talks about the law being a law of death. And the reason it's a law of death is there's nothing wrong with the law. What's wrong is that there's something wrong with us, is that we can't keep it. And it's that same way with all laws, even any civil law in the country which you or I live in. The law can only tell us what is right and what is wrong, what is good and what is evil. It gives us no power to keep it, nor does it give us any ability to avoid punishment when we break it. So the law can only condemn us. It can only condemn us for breaking it. By contrast, the law of Christ is one built on love, a love relationship with the Lord. And when we love him, then it is because he first loved us. Therefore, we can fall into his arms and enjoy the relationship. Under the law, all you had was to worry about when I'm going to be condemned, because there was only this cold, sterile law. So what it's saying here in this passage that it gives this very frightful description of Mount Sinai with the lightning and the thunder and the earthquakes, to the point that verse 21, even Moses was afraid. But by contrast, verse 22, Christians have come to the new covenant city of heavenly Jerusalem, Mount Zion. We didn't come to Mount Sinai, we came to Mount Zion. Mount Zion was the hill in Jerusalem on which David built his palace. So we have here this description of Christians coming to the city of Jerusalem with all of the new covenant things. Now, the city is not the only time that it's mentioned in the New Testament. Chapter 11, verse 10, it speaks about Abraham seeking a city built by God. Chapter 11, verse 16, God has prepared a city for those who are faithful to him. Here in 1222, quote, you have come to Mount Zion and the city of the living God, unquote, which is past tense, already happened. You have come to Mount Zion. We're going to see in chapter 13, verse 14, it speaks in a future sense. We do not have a lasting city now, but we are seeking the city which is to come. We are awaiting this in the future. So we can only conclude from comparing all of these that there are both a future heavenly city and a present sense in which we have approached the city. The verb here in 1222 is we have come to, we have approached. It is a past tense, but it's not saying we've gone into the city. We have come up to this figurative city of the New Jerusalem, but we will expect a new literal one to come from heaven. Three times in Revelation, the New Jerusalem is said to start in heaven and come from God down to earth. Every time it mentions the city, it says it comes from heaven. Revelation 3.12, Revelation 21.2, and 21.10. Therefore, we can only conclude that we now have come up to this city in a figurative sense and all these things here. We've come up to these angels in the new covenant. We are a citizen of the new Jerusalem, but it's not going to be here until it comes down from heaven. I think the real contrast in this passage, the real main thrust of it, is that the contrast in between the Mosaic law and the church. The Mosaic law was frightful, but the new covenant is loving and inviting. At the giving of the law, if you remember, 3,000 people were killed due to disbelief. At the giving of the new covenant, 3,000 people were saved on the day of Pentecost. Mount Sinai could not be approached, but Mount Zion has invited all up to it. All Christians should be relieved that we can come to the new covenant of grace and not under the old covenant of obedience. And Steve, I just find that, like in verse 24 and the rest of the book of Hebrews, really, that Jesus is a better sacrifice with a better covenant. He is a better priest. And here it's better than the old covenant because the old covenant was frightful and condemning, and the new covenant is warm and inviting and open to all.
SPEAKER_01:I think he's also putting us in the same position of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob back in chapter 11, where, as you pointed out, Abraham was seeking a city, and he didn't realize it yet in his lifetime, but he is going to realize it whenever the city actually is here and whenever Abraham is resurrected. We're in that same position in that we have given this promise of this city that is coming. It's an actual city that is going to come from heaven, and we're looking forward to it. But the point being is that just like them, we have these promises of things that are going to happen in the future. And as we go through this practical chapter 12, he's encouraging us to stay steady, to stay on the path, to make peace with all men, to not get a root of bitterness. Practical things to keep us on our journey of faith and look forward, don't look back. I think that here is another example that he's giving to us and to the readers that he's writing to, of telling them you're in that same position with all these faithful before you. They didn't realize the things that were promised to them, not everything in their lifetime. Same thing is going to be with them, same thing is going to be with us.
SPEAKER_00:The book of Hebrews has reinforced this idea that Jesus is a better sacrifice, he's a better covenant, he is a better priest. And here in 1224, it tells us that his blood is better. I'll go ahead and read it. We have come to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel. Well, the sprinkled blood, of course, speaks to the sprinkling of the blood. If you remember, the high priest once a year would go behind the curtain in the Holy of Holies and sprinkle blood on top of the Ark of the Covenant. The top of it was the mercy seat. And that was the picture of the blood being in between the glory of God and the Ten Commandments, which we had all violated. And if you've been with us through the book of Hebrews, there's a heavenly temple where Jesus' blood was taken and was the better sacrifice. So here it talks about Jesus' blood in the heavenly temple being better than the blood of Abel. Now, of course, Abel was the first murder back in Genesis. His blood was the first to be spilled, and Jesus was the last to be spilled that makes any difference because his was the blood that needed to be spilled to be sprinkled to take away all of our sins. Such great, grand and glorious teachings about who is Jesus and the fact that even his blood is better. Jesus' blood is the blood of reconciliation. Abel's blood brought guilt, but Jesus' blood frees us from guilt and brings peace. So, Steve, can we pick up the next section, which is the writer continues this contrast in between the old and the new. Can you read from verses 25 to 29?
SPEAKER_01:See to it that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from him who warns from heaven. And his voice shook the earth then, but now he has promised, saying, Yet once more I will shake not only the earth, but also heaven. This expression, yet once more, denotes the removing of those things which can be shaken, as of created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire.
SPEAKER_00:The first verse that you read there, verse 25, see to it that you do not refuse him who is speaking. Well, the hymn there is, of course, Jesus. What is contrasting is that if they refuse the old covenant, then how much more is going to be a problem if they refuse the new? So, Steve, now that we're in the church, what happens if we ignore the words and commands of Jesus Christ? And what is this saying to present-day Christians? He's contrasting that with the Old Testament believers that if they ignore the commands of the Old Testament law, well, what's going to happen to the New Testament saints if we ignore the commands of the new covenant?
SPEAKER_01:I think it goes back to what the writer of Hebrews has been conveying to these believers in the Judea area, the believers in Jesus Christ, is that the Old Testament people that made decisions and grumbled against God didn't want to go into the promised land. They made an irrevocable decision that caused them to not go into the promised land, that caused them to not receive the earthly peace, didn't have anything to do with their salvation and the trust that they had put in God, but yet they made an irrevocable decision of disbelief, unbelief that God was going to be with them whenever they went into the promised land. And that is just one example. Now the author of Hebrews is bringing additional information that we have Jesus Christ that is here. God has been manifested from heaven himself. And we now have this right and true way. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me. And he's encouraging them, same thing. You're on the right path. Don't go back to all the rituals and sacrifices of Judaism that they've been put under. One after another, example has been giving them to stay on the right path, the path that they've already chosen, because if they decide to go back, it's an irrevocable decision that they're going to have some consequences to it. And there is an impending destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Jesus predicted that. We see that in Matthew chapter 24, Luke chapter 21. So there's an impending judgment that's coming. He's encouraging them to stay faithful so that they don't have some sort of an earthly judgment on themselves at the time that would shorten their life here on earth or would bring about some sort of a calamity to them here on earth. And he says that if they didn't believe the earthly warnings that they were given by Moses and others, Joshua, also whenever he had taken them into the land, then how much more of it's going to be of a calamity or a earthly judgment on us whenever we have the actual heavenly depiction of Jesus Christ who has come himself. And again, for us Gentiles, Glenn, our example would be going back to worldly ways. So stick with Jesus, keep looking forward to the celestial city, the new Jerusalem that is coming. Keep looking forward to the things of the future. Don't look back, don't turn back to the ways of the world.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's exactly it. The first part of chapter 12 was an encouragement based on look at all these witnesses, look at all the benefits of staying the course. God will strengthen you, so stay the course. This last part of chapter 12 is a warning about what happens if you don't. It's a very sober, very serious warning. And I don't think our leaders give us enough of these sober, serious warnings for disobedience in the church. Verse 25 is saying if the Old Testament people were suffering because of disobedience to God, how much more are you going to suffer if we have disobedience in the new covenant? In verse 26, he gives an illustration. In the giving of the old covenant, God's voice shook Mount Sinai. There was an earthquake there because of God speaking. Well, he quotes Haggai 2.6, which says, Remember last time I shook the earth? Well, now I'm not going to just do that. I'm going to shake earth and the heavens. So the contrast is clear. The old covenant was so scary that there was an earthquake on Mount Sinai. The new covenant is so frightful if we ignore it or disobey it. It'll shake the earth and the heavens. It's really a serious thing to fall into the hands of an angry God. So Hebrews 12 is talking about this kingdom that cannot be shaken, that God can shake the earth and the heavens, but the kingdom can't be shaken. Jesus is the rock that can't be shaken. Steve, with all this frightful warnings, do you find it reassuring to be part of a kingdom which is permanent and cannot be shaken, that's built on the rock of Jesus Christ?
SPEAKER_01:I absolutely find it reassuring and joyful of what we have to look forward to. There are some that say that we're in the kingdom now. Well, we're in the kingdom now, as you've pointed out before, can we give it back? Because what we see in the world today is a very rebellious world in much of the things that is going on, and very much of rebellious people in the world that don't want to have anything to do with God. I think that. Kingdom that is spoken of in the Old Testament and that is spoken of in the New Testament, the future messianic kingdom that is going to be ruled from Jerusalem by Jesus Himself, the Messiah, is depicted as a much different kingdom where we had the restoration of the nations being redeemed. We had the restoration of creation being redeemed. And it's going to be a different picture of life altogether than what we're living now. So, yes, it gives me so much encouragement of what's going to happen in the future of the kingdom than trying to reason with and justify that the kingdom is happening now with all the corruption and all of the awful things that are happening of rebellion against God in the world in which I live in today.
SPEAKER_00:I want to read verse 28 again and talk about it. Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, of course, that that's our salvation, that's our salvation in Christ. It cannot be destroyed. He says, Let us show gratitude by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe. So it's saying, because we have a sure salvation, therefore, let us one show gratitude to God for that, and then offer to God service. I think that is really what it's telling us, Steve, is that because we are given this great gift of a salvation in Christ, and he's the rock, he cannot be shaken. Therefore, we should one show gratitude to God and two, show service to God. Do we do that enough in the church today?
SPEAKER_01:I don't think so. By the church, you're talking about the body of Christ. And I think depends upon where you live in the world. I do think that there are portions of the body of Christ where they are oppressed that they do give thankfulness to God and show that to God as to what he has given them. Because, you know, whenever they don't have any type of comfort here on this earth, then looking forward to comfort in the next realm is so much more to be able to be looked forward to. But here in the Western world where you and I are, I think we have gotten really comfortable with the situation that we're in. And we go through the motions of going to our local church and worshiping God, we say we are, but many times what is it that we're doing? We are actually not worshiping God Himself, not being thankful for what God has provided for us. And we have the health and wealth gospel that is preached, that you can live your best life now. And those types of things that are taught from the pulpits today that are completely out of line with what is taught in Scripture. So I think we have a convolution in the Western world where we are not always appreciative of what God has given us, and we are comfortable with our current situation, which focuses on us and doesn't always focus on God and who he is.
SPEAKER_00:The last part of Hebrews 12, 28 tells us that we should show God gratitude and give him service. And my Christian friend, all of us need to take that very seriously. That's the point of this section of scripture, is that it's a very serious thing to have been given this wonderful gift of salvation. And in response, we should be in continual gratitude towards the Lord and continual service to him to spread his kingdom. And I think all of us should take a very sober, very serious look at our lives and ask ourselves have I thanked God enough? Have I done enough service for him? All of our churches are full of people that some of them are overworked, as Vernon McGee said, sometimes busy as termites and just as productive. But the vast majority come in and they warm a seat on Sunday and they go home and they don't serve. My friend, we are being challenged, commanded, if you will, to serve. And the last part of this chapter, it says, we give God this service with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire. And Steve, I don't remember being taught too many times that God is a consuming fire. We tend to have this view of God as a nice uncle that gives us a warm hug on our birthday. And there's a part of that that's true. God is love, but he's also a consuming fire, and we need to approach him with reverence and awe.
SPEAKER_01:That is something I think that is lacking, and that we're misunderstanding of God, that he is benevolent. That's what we're taught, that he is primarily a loving, gracious God, but yet we're not always taught that there's also discipline, which is what the author had gone through earlier. And he said, What father doesn't discipline their child if he doesn't love them? So we're not taught about that side of God, the Father, often enough in the churches that we have today, and the discipline that can come about to train us up in the right way, but also give us correction when we need correction. And also the awe and wonderment that we should have for God because He is a consuming fire. That description that was given earlier of the people there seeing God in action on Mount Sinai, it gives you this picture of them realizing how powerful and how awesome God actually is. And we just don't have that type of an experience in our lives today, and it's not conveyed to us often enough from the pulpit or taught to us by teachers enough for us to really sit back, ponder it, and understand who God really is, how awesome he is, and what he has done, and that we need to have a great, great appreciation for him, and we need to honor and worship him in that way and not just worship him from the standpoint of, oh, I'm gonna get all of these benefits from him. No, we need to honor him by serving him because of the God he is.
SPEAKER_00:We should approach God knowing he is loving, but we should also approach him with reverence and awe because he is a consuming fire, and we need to realize that. That brings us to the end of Hebrews chapter 12, and please be with us next time because we're going to deal with chapter 13, which is the love chapter.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much for watching and listening, and as always, may God bless you.
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