Reasoning Through the Bible
Taking a cue from Paul, Reasoning Through the Bible is an expository style walk through the Scriptures that tells you what the Bible says. Reviewing both Old and New Testament books, as well as topical subjects, the hosts methodically show how Scripture is one cohesive story. Critical Thinking with a little bit of theology and apologetics and you have what this podcast is about. Just like Paul on Mars Hill, Christianity today must address woke, deconstruction, and progressive Christianity, all topics that are addressed if we go purposefully through the Bible. Join Glenn and Steve weekly on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday as they reason with you through the Bible.
Reasoning Through the Bible
S25 || The Significance of Zechariah's Vision || Zechariah 13:1-6 || Session 25 || Verse by Verse Bible Study
Unlock the mysteries of Zechariah 13 as we navigate the intricate layers of biblical prophecy and the powerful imagery woven throughout this pivotal chapter. Ever wondered how different time periods get interwoven into a single prophetic vision? We promise a deep dive into the concept of "telescoping" and the profound implications of the phrase "in that day," guiding you through a nuanced understanding of future events and the anticipated return of Jesus the Messiah. Consider the future possibility of a widespread Jewish embrace of Jesus, and delve into the societal stance against false prophets, both in the past and in the potential future restored Davidic Kingdom reign. Through theological discussions and historical context, we explore a future where truth prevails, and the falsehoods that once caused confusion will be eradicated. Join us for an enlightening exploration that promises to expand your understanding and appreciation of this complex biblical text.
Welcome to Reasoning Through the Bible If you have your copy of the Word of God. Open to the Old Testament book of Zechariah, chapter 13. We are in the depths of a very important book of the Bible, simply because it gives us a perspective on broad strokes of biblical history, and we're going to see more of that today in chapter 13. In chapter 13. Zechariah 13 is arguably the most difficult chapter in the book, simply because it's sometimes quite difficult to fit all the pieces in the correct place.
Speaker 1:In church history there's a concept that I think we've mentioned previously, called telescoping, where many times the Old Testament prophets would be given a word from the Lord which would compress different time periods into one phrasing or one passage. We know this is true We've mentioned this earlier in one of our earlier sessions that our no less than our Lord at one point was in a synagogue and quoted Isaiah 61. Lord at one point was in a synagogue and quoted Isaiah 61. And when he read Isaiah 61, he read the first half of the sentence and then sat down and said this is fulfilled in your hearing. Well, he didn't read the second half of the sentence because the second half of the sentence wasn't fulfilled in their hearing. So he had one sentence in Isaiah 61 that the first half of the sentence was fulfilled at Jesus' first coming and the second half of the very same sentence was fulfilled in the second coming of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:We have some of that here in this chapter and again, looking at the Bible teachers and commenters over the centuries I don't think they understood it any more than we have. It's a challenging chapter but I think we can draw some very important things from it. As we go through it, I think we're going to find some very important teachings. We're also going to see how complex biblical prophecy can be. Any thoughts on that, steve, before we jump in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just want to remind our listeners that this, going from chapter 12 into chapter 13, this is a continuation of description of things that are happening in that day. So while we're transversing into a new chapter, it's still in the flow of everything that Zachariah has been talking about of incidences that are happening at a specific point in time. We pointed out in our last session that in that day that this is talking about is still sometime in the future, so just wanted to bring that up to our audience to keep them in the flow that we're not changing course or we're not changing to another day. This is still in all context of something that's happening in that day.
Speaker 1:That phrase in that day is mentioned four more times just in chapter 13. We're in a place here where it's specifically talking about the day of the Lord, or the day in which these things will be fulfilled, and we're going to see that here. Let's just get our toe into this chapter and read. Just the first verse says this in that day, a fountain will be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for impurity. With this. Jerusalem for sin and for impurity With this. It seems fairly straightforward.
Speaker 2:In verse 1, which groups is it talking about there? Steve Verse 1 here in 13,. Glenn, it's talking about a fountain that's going to be open for this house of David in the inhabitant of Jerusalem. It says that it's for sin and impurity. This reminds me of mikvahs. Mikvahs were an area where the Jewish people were supposed to go in and they would take ritual baths in order to purify themselves. One of the conditions of it was that it had to be living waters. It had to be waters that was stirred up or flowing. It wasn't to be stagnant water. So I get a picture here that here is going to be a fountain of living waters that is opened up to the rulers and also the inhabitants of Jerusalem for this sin and impurity. It's going to be a way for them to be able to purify themselves.
Speaker 1:The house of David, of course, is the kingly line, which is the rulers, as you just said. It's everybody else too, so it's talking about everyone who would be in and around Jerusalem and the nation there. Then it talks about this fountain. A fountain will be opened. What is this fountain supposed to be for, according to verse 1?
Speaker 2:A fountain gives you the visual of a spring of living water. It's there for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for their sin and for their iniquity. Here we are. We're talking about a little bit of a symbolism here related to this. This is a fountain that is going to somehow represent forgiveness of their sin and iniquity.
Speaker 1:You talk about a fountain, you think of something that is springing up or bubbling up. What is the ultimate solution to sin and impurity?
Speaker 2:The ultimate solution is Jesus Christ, what he's done on the death, burial and resurrection. Whenever we believe on him, then we have the salvation and he will forgive us of our sins. That's the ultimate solution to sin and iniquity.
Speaker 1:Right. Exactly, the ultimate solution to sin and iniquity. This fountain here that's mentioned is in salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus is indeed a fountain that comes up for eternal life. I'm reminded of Jesus at the woman at the well. He used that exact terminology, really. Remember the woman at the well? He said if you take the water that I give him, it will be a water that's springing up to eternal life, a fountain of water springing up to eternal life. Jesus may have been thinking about this same illustration back here in Zechariah when he was speaking to the woman at the well in John 4. The part of it is quite clear in the sense that Jesus is the ultimate solution. He is the fountain that springs up to eternal life.
Speaker 1:The difficulty is that verse 1 is clearly speaking of very Jewish things the descendants of David and the people of Jerusalem. Yet the only fountain for sin is through Jesus, whom the Jewish people have rejected. It's not speaking of a remnant of the Jewish people. It doesn't say that. It doesn't mean that House of David and the people of Jerusalem. He's speaking here of a fountain in Jesus Christ that is for the house of David and the people of Jerusalem. It is for sin and salvation. How do we reconcile this fact that this fountain has indeed provided a way of salvation for the Jewish people, but they've rejected it? The Bible Knowledge Commentary was published by Dallas Theological Seminary and it had a very good quote that I'll read now. That, I think, is the closest that I could get to explaining this. They said, quote on the day of Christ's crucifixion the fountain was opened potentially for all Israel and the whole world. At the second advent of Christ, the fountain will be opened experientially for the Jewish nation. Close quote that seems to be the best explanation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just had this one thing, glenn. Before we move on, let me ask you here. It's talking about this fountain that's going to be opened up I just mentioned earlier, where it said, for sin and impurity, for them to ritually purify themselves. Now, what's that? Is there an actual city of Jerusalem In that Jerusalem? Does it have actual inhabitants? So what is your idea regarding this? Do you think that this is something that should be spiritualized or do you think that this is something that is going to be a physical thing that's going to happen? I know your quote that you just mentioned from the Dallas Theological Seminary is talking about something that's actually going to happen sometime in the future. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1:The inhabitants of Jerusalem will indeed be addressed when Jesus comes back and we're going to see when we get to chapter 14, he's going to talk about similar imagery in the sense that there's going to be a stream of living water that's flowing from the Mount of Olives, which, of course, is right next to Jerusalem. This imagery of a stream or a fountain could indeed be literal. The part that is literal is that the salvation is indeed for the house of David and the people of Jerusalem. I remember when Jesus first came at the beginning of his ministry. What did he then, at the beginning of his ministry, command his disciples to do? He told his disciples to go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel in Matthew 10.6. He was specifically giving the kingdom to the people of Israel. He told his disciples, sent them out two by two and said don't go to the Gentiles, go to just Israel. Indeed, the fountain of forgiveness in the kingdom, through Jesus Christ, was indeed given to Israel. The question then comes is they didn't accept it and to this day, largely as a nation, they have rejected it. Therefore, the fountain in verse 1 here of Zechariah 13 was indeed quote for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, but they rejected it for now. I think there will come a time and I think we're going to see this before we get out of the book that there's going to be large percentages of the Jewish people that will come to Christ. I think that's what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:The fountain part, of course, is similar language as we said in the Woman at the Well is a fountain of water springing up to eternal life. It's that there's sufficiency in that. There's enough for everybody. By contrast, I think of the Old Testament sacrificial system. Remember they had an altar and there was a laver which is just a large bowl. You had to dip water out of that. It was just sitting there in a large bowl. You had to draw it out. But this is different. This is going to be a fountain that's springing up and there's enough for everybody.
Speaker 2:Just, a reminder that this is on the heels of the previous verses in chapter 12, where it says the people in that day, the Jewish people in that day, will look upon him, who they pierced, and will mourn. The last verses of 12 go through the kingly line, the prophets and the priestly line of all mourning and all the families mourning, right on the heels of talking about them, looking on whom they pierced, which is Jesus, and mourning and lamenting. Now we open up here in 13 with this fountain that is going to be provided for them, for their sin and for their impurity. Glenn, there's a lot of people that are running around that like to say that Jesus has rejected the Jewish people in the nation of Israel because they rejected Jesus in his day. But this is saying something completely different through all of these verses that in that day, in a day in the future, that God is going to provide a way, not a different way, but he's going to bring his people back and he's going to once again embrace them and that they're going to embrace him.
Speaker 1:To me, steve, the main point here gets missed a lot. There's a lot of theological arm-wrestling that goes on with this. We've been guilty of it ourselves but there's a lot of theological back and forth over. Is it for just Israel? Is it for the Gentiles? How does all that work out Really? This fountain for sin and impurity has been there all along. There's nothing really new, because the scriptures tell us that God has always been full of love and mercy. Psalm 25.6 says that God's compassion and loving kindness are from ancient times, from days of old, that his character is always overflowing with loving kindness and forgiveness and anyone can always go back to him and there is plenty of mercy available. It's when we get hard-hearted and self-centered is when we get into the depths of sin and impurity. God has always been a loving God and if we just go back to him, he has sufficiency. I think that's the main point of this. God's fountain of forgiveness bubbles up. It's not a bowl, it's not limited. There's this endless supply of his love and forgiveness that springs up to eternal life. It flows abundantly. To me, that's the real message here. We can have some nice theological discussions on how it applies, but the main point is that our God is a forgiving God on how it applies. But the main point is that our God is a forgiving God. He's a merciful God and he has plenty of forgiveness for everybody if we just but fall at his feet and love him.
Speaker 1:With that, let's move on to verse 2. It will come about in that day, declares the Lord of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land and they will no longer be remembered from the land and they will no longer be remembered. I will also remove the prophets and the unclean spirit from the land. This verse mentioned the land twice. The land is always the land of Israel. It's the specific land, the land that was given to Abraham, isaac and Jacob. The land is a major theme throughout all of biblical history. It's a major theme that crosses boundaries all throughout the scriptures. The unilateral promise that God made to the Jewish people is that the land will be theirs forever.
Speaker 1:He again here mentions the land and this land. He's talking about idol worship. Now, idol worship. If you remember your Old Testament history, idol worship was a problem for the nation of Israel for many centuries, going all the way back to the ancient days in Egypt with the golden calf. Probably even prior to that there was idols there. Well, one of the reasons why God sent in Assyria and Babylon to take the people of Israel captive was because they had continually fallen at the feet of idols and God was going to drive that from them. Over and over again, the time of the kings and the time of the judges, they had fallen into idol worship. Here it says again in that day he's going to remove the idols.
Speaker 1:The question then becomes by the point that Zechariah had written the Jewish people had largely gotten rid of the main idols. I think there's been some hints in this book, though, steve. They may have still had some of the smaller idols, the little household idols. Those apparently were still there. Earlier in the book there was still some strains of this idol worship that was hanging on. But it seems like human nature is such that even if we don't have a stone or metal image that we're bowing down in front of, we will go, look for something money or power or sex or something to turn into an idol. So I think here he's talking about there will come a day when all the idols are driven out, all of them, completely, entirely. That's what he's talking about, is he not? He?
Speaker 2:is.
Speaker 2:He's talking about purging the land in that day.
Speaker 2:So, at the same time that he's coming to fight for Jerusalem and to protect it, he's saying at that same time, I'm going to purge these idols, the prophets associated with these gods of the idols and the unclean spirit that's associated with this as well. We get a picture here or at least starting to kind of get a picture that this is going to be a little bit different. When the nation of Israel went into the land the first time under Joshua, the Lord said I'm going to be with you, I'm going to go before you and I'm going to be with you and drive out the inhabitants of the land. You need to follow what I'm saying. And of course, as the story progresses, they didn't completely follow God. They retained some of these idols and things like that and they didn't push out all of the inhabitants. But now we have a picture here where God says I'm going to, I'm going to purge the land of these once and for all, of these idols, idol worship, the false prophets and the unclean spirit that's associated with them.
Speaker 1:I'm also reminded that in the book of Revelation, chapter 13, verse 4, tells us that the dragon the book of Revelation, chapter 13, verse 4, tells us that the dragon, who is Satan, will set himself up as an idol in the holy place in some sort of a temple at that point. So we still have remnants of idol worship that are happening all the way up into the book of Revelation. That's what he's saying here. Don't miss the main point. He says he's going to drive all of that. There will come a day when there are no more idols. Even the names of them will be not remembered anymore.
Speaker 1:The end of verse 2, steve gives us a kickoff into the next section. What does the end of verse 2 also say? He's going to remove from the land, he's going to move the unclean spirit. So the unclean spirits will be something that are not there as well. So he's going to get rid of all the idols, all the unclean spirits. There's going to be a purification in the land of Israel. Let's go read the next section. Steve, can you start at verse 3 and go down to verse 6?
Speaker 2:And if anyone still prophesies, then his father and mother who gave birth to him will say to him you shall not live, for you have spoken falsely in the name of the Lord. And his father and mother, who gave birth to him, will pierce him through when he prophesies. Also, it will come about in that day that the prophets will each be ashamed of his vision when he prophesies, and they will not put on a hairy robe in order to deceive. But he will say I'm not a prophet, I'm a tiller of the ground, for a man sold me as a slave in my youth. And one will say to him what are these wounds between your arms?
Speaker 1:Then he will say those are with which I was wounded in the house of my friends, in this passage God is clearly saying that there will come a day when there is no more prophets in the land. And of course a prophet in the sense of Zechariah was somebody who would speak for God. This was before the canon of scripture was completed, so God had the office of prophet who would speak messages for God to the people. And of course nowadays the word prophet has expanded a bit. In a New Testament sense A prophet would be not only someone who would give new revelation but teach old revelation. So a prophetic word could be taking something already written in the Bible and just explaining it, such as a Bible teacher in that sense as a prophet here. I don't think it's using that sense. Here it's the Old Testament sense of a prophet. We know that because of the clues here.
Speaker 1:In verse 4 talks about hairy robes and visions. Think of John the Baptist. What did he wear? A robe of camel's hair, and some of the other Old Testament prophets had a mantle. They would talk about this and he's saying that he's going to come a time where there are no more of these people. There will be no more prophets in an Old Testament sense. Therefore there would be nobody standing up saying thus saith the Lord, and giving a message. It was quite clear why and what would happen. What is a summary, steve, of what those verses are saying would happen to these Old Testament prophets?
Speaker 2:Well, back in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, the prescription for a false prophet was that they were to be eliminated. So this, I think, is saying here that maybe a natural thing for a mother and father is to protect their child and give them excuses and maybe be an enabler to them and to maybe overlook some of the things that they might do. This is something that's saying even the false prophets' parents are no longer going to cover for them and that they're going to be exposed. Then, on the other verses it talks about conditions of. Even the prophets themselves are going to be embarrassed to continue to prophesy in a false manner, even to the point when somebody comes up to them and confronts them about it, they go no, no, I'm not a prophet, I'm a farmer. And somebody else approaches them and says, yeah, but what about all these scars and stuff that you have on you? And of course, I think that comes back to when Elijah was going with the Baal prophets on Mount Carmel and they were cutting themselves and flagellating themselves to bring their God to consume the sacrifice that had been put there on the altar. This was something that false prophets did of false gods, thinking that it would promote the appearance of the God when confronted with what about all these scars? No, no, no, no. Those were just something that happened to me over at a friend's house. These verses here are saying not only is God going to purge the land of it, but even the false prophets themselves are no longer going to want to be associated with false prophecy.
Speaker 2:Glenn, I think that is something that's important to mention, that in our day we have many, many false prophets that have platforms that they speak on On a daily basis. They're having visions from God, of God is telling them certain things. They go on these platforms and they say this is what's going to happen. Most of them and I do mean most of them don't come about. It's very clear that these people that God is not speaking to them, but yet they have no shame. Even though it doesn't come about, they give some sort of an excuse for why it didn't come about. They continue to give these false prophets and people continue to enable them, give them money and such like that. This is talking about a day in time in the future, in that day whenever these false prophets are going to be ashamed to even be associated of being a false prophet and it's going to stop. God's going to put an end to it Again.
Speaker 1:Let's look at exactly what this is saying about these prophets. We get the sense of what the passage is communicating. Verse 3, you shall not live, for you have spoken falsely in the sense of what the passage is communicating. Verse 3, you shall not live, for you have spoken falsely in the name of the Lord. So the preface here is that these were false prophets. Although some sections of it might seem it's possibly talking about any prophet, the context is a false prophet, and so much so that the end of verse 3, the father and mother who gave birth to him will pierce him through. When he prophesies, what he's saying is that there's not going to be any toleration of any false prophets. They will not be in the land, they will not be anyone running around. Even if somebody stood up and said thus, saith the Lord, even his parents would thrust him through. Then verse 4, they will be ashamed of their vision that there will be no toleration, even amongst the false prophets themselves. It's going to be completely driven out, to the point where they even deny that they were ever even a prophet. They would say, no, I'm just a farmer.
Speaker 1:Again, as always, we have to at least always in this book. We have to decide is this fulfilled in the past, the present or the future? Was it fulfilled in Zechariah's day or sometime in the intertestamental period, or is it symbolic of now, in the church, or in the future? Well, in one sense we could say, okay, god has completed the canon of Scripture. There's not blank pages in the back of our Bible for new revelation that might come along. God has completed his revelation. So in that sense you could say there's no more people out there speaking for God.
Speaker 1:But, as you well pointed out, steve, there are today false prophets. There continue to be false prophets. There's false prophets that were mentioned in several of the books of the New Testament that had already crept into the church, some of them mentioned by name, and they're certainly not ashamed. False prophets are by no means ashamed and they're even tolerated in the church. So they're running around today and they ran around the New Testament, and they're even tolerated in the church. So they're running around today and they ran around the New Testament. Hence that there are false prophets that were coming up claiming to be messiahs just prior to Jesus' time. No point in history up to now has there ever been a time where the false prophets were ashamed to stand up and say they're a false prophet, were ashamed to stand up and say they're a false prophet. And the false prophets today are not ashamed. They're even tolerated.
Speaker 1:Verse 4 and 5 seems to be saying that there will be no false prophets. They will not be tolerated. Therefore, it would seem that the ultimate fulfillment of this will be in the earthly millennial kingdom, when Christ comes back. Why will we not need a prophet? Because Jesus will be right there in Jerusalem proclaiming the truth and be the ultimate authority. We won't need somebody to stand up and say thus saith the Lord, because the Lord's going to be right there. He can speak for himself. Thank you very much. That's what I think is the only reasonable fulfillment of these passages.
Speaker 1:We look at the end of verse 3. Note that the punishment given here for the false prophet is that the parents would kill their own child when they sired a false prophet. This is part of the Mosaic law given in Deuteronomy, chapter 13, verses 6 through 11. It would specifically say there if somebody prophesies falsely, that they should be killed. So verse 3, another one of these conundrums of exactly how it fits, would not seem to apply to the church age, because we're not under the Mosaic law. Deuteronomy 13 is not in place today. Galatians 5.18 says, quote if you are led by the Spirit, you're not under the law. We're not under the Mosaic law. Today, following a Mosaic law command for a false prophet would seem to be okay. Where does this fit? It is unclear as to exactly when this verses would be fulfilled, unless future generations decide to follow Old Testament laws, which could be the case Nevertheless. Once you start reasoning through these things, you end up with some conundrum Further here in this passage, steve, I think what's really interesting is that so much so will the false prophets not be tolerated?
Speaker 1:Verse 6,. It says they got wounded in the house of my friends. Even the friends of the false prophets will not tolerate the false prophet. Even the people that associate with the false prophets say no, no, that's a false prophet, we're going to drive them out. There will be no churches around. There will be no even house churches that would tolerate a prophet standing up saying I have a new message from the Lord. No, no, we'll go to the Lord directly. He's right here.
Speaker 1:Very much Seems to again be speaking about false prophets, not the Messiah. Verse 6, when it talks about wounding between the hands. Some of the teachers think, well, that's Christ dying on the cross. But that doesn't really fit because the context of the passage is false prophets. I think verse 6 just merely says the prophets there will not be tolerated in society. They will not be tolerated by their parents. They will not be tolerated even their parents. They will not be tolerated even in the houses of the people they claim to be. Their friends are going to drive them out. Steve, I just would look forward to the day when there are no false teachers running around the countryside anywhere.
Speaker 2:I will too, because all they do is cause confusion and mislead people. It's really a shame that people even listen to them today.
Speaker 1:Probably a good spot to stop for today because of time, but we're right in the middle of a very rich section, and we'll have more of that as we continue to reason through the Bible next time.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for watching and listening. May God bless you. Music.
