Reasoning Through the Bible
Taking a cue from Paul, Reasoning Through the Bible is an expository style walk through the Scriptures that tells you what the Bible says. Reviewing both Old and New Testament books, as well as topical subjects, the hosts methodically show how Scripture is one cohesive story. Critical Thinking with a little bit of theology and apologetics and you have what this podcast is about. Just like Paul on Mars Hill, Christianity today must address woke, deconstruction, and progressive Christianity, all topics that are addressed if we go purposefully through the Bible. Join Glenn and Steve weekly on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday as they reason with you through the Bible.
Reasoning Through the Bible
S24 || The Trinity, Prophecy, and Israel's Redemption || Zechariah 12:10-14 || Session 24 || Verse by Verse Bible Study
What if a single verse could unlock profound insights into the Trinity and redefine how we view biblical prophecy? Join us for a deep examination of Zechariah 12:10, where we discuss how this pivotal scripture suggests early foundations for the concept of the Trinity. This episode unravels the prophecy of Israel's future recognition of Jesus as the Messiah, the one who was pierced, and explores the theological implications for understanding the deity of Jesus. As we navigate this rich text, we promise a thought-provoking discussion on the intricate relationship between the Father and the Son, and the prophetic anticipation of Israel's collective mourning and acceptance of their long-rejected Messiah.
Hello and welcome to Reasoning Through the Bible. My name's Glenn and I'm here with Steve. We have a ministry where we go verse by verse through the Word of God. We are in the Old Testament, book of Zechariah, chapter 12. Today we're going to be at one of the most interesting passages in really all of Scripture, because there's a series of things here that God is talking to the Jewish people. Steve, can you give us a flow of where we are in the chapter and kind of when we pick up with 1210, what comes just prior to this? So we'll have a context.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so in chapter 12 here in our last session, this is all a continuation of describing things that God is going to do, or the Messiah, in that day. In verse 8, he mentions that in that day the Lord Yahweh will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem. In verse 9, he says in that day, I meaning Yahweh will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. Because of time, we stopped right there in last session explaining that, but now as we pick up here in verse 10, I just want to make sure that the audience is aware this is a continuation of things that God is saying that is going to be done in that day, and we're going to see that verse again a little bit later here in verse 11, for instance, the phrase in that day appears a double handful of times throughout the book of Zechariah.
Speaker 1:It's here in this passage.
Speaker 1:What Steve just described brings us down to Zechariah 12.10, which not only talks about the Messiah and the people of Israel, but it also gives some support for the Trinity. So Zechariah 12.10 says this I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of grace and of supplication so that they will look on me, whom they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only son. They will weep bitterly over him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn. Now, this verse is clearly speaking of Jesus, for he was the one who was pierced and he was the one who was the firstborn. We're told that in the book of Colossians. So that is clearly speaking of Jesus. So that is clearly speaking of Jesus. It also is given biblical support because John 19.37 quotes this verse right at the point that a soldier poked a spear into the side of Jesus when he was on the cross. They will pierce me. That's the context of this verse.
Speaker 1:The first thing I want to talk about with this verse is it gives support for the Trinity. Note here the persons that are talked about and the pronouns. I will pour out a spirit of grace. This can only be God. The only one that can pour out grace, a spirit of grace on mankind is the Lord, god Almighty. Then it says look on me, whom they have pierced.
Speaker 1:This is Jesus speaking in first person. Jesus in first person is saying I will pour out the spirit of grace which lends support for the deity of Jesus Christ. He was God Almighty. But then notice, it changes pronouns. They will look on me, whom they've pierced, and they will mourn for him. Now it's third person, as one mourns for an only son. We have both the son and the father speaking in one sentence here. In this passage it speaks on they will mourn for me, jesus, whom they've pierced, and they will mourn for him as an only son. In one sentence we have God Almighty and we have the Father is God and the Son is God and they're both speaking as persons. This verse clearly supports the Trinity way back here in the Old Testament and of course the Trinity is essential doctrine. Those that deny the Trinity are not Christian, because they have denied essential doctrines dealing with the nature and salvation of Jesus Christ. That's the groundwork here for this verse. What else do we see in this verse, steve? It's really kind of packed with meaning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. It says there that they will mourn for him, speaking of Jesus. Of course, this is talking about the Messiah. We know that Jesus is the Messiah, so that's why we keep mentioning that. It's speaking about Jesus, but it says they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only son, that they're going to weep bitterly over him. Let's think about that. Why would they be weeping and mourning?
Speaker 2:This is speaking about throughout all of this chapter here and Zechariah in general the nation of Israel, and this talks about bringing them, the people, back into the land. Come closer to me so that I'll draw closer to you in chapter 1. So this is speaking about the nation itself. What happened whenever Jesus was crucified? There were people that were mourning over him dying and they did weep bitterly. His mother did and his followers did his disciples, but those were a small group of people. The nation itself, officially, through the rulers, rejected Jesus as the Messiah. They did not weep over Jesus. They were happy. They looked at him as being a problem that they wanted to get rid of. That's why they wanted the Romans to kill him, because they were having a problem with him.
Speaker 2:This is speaking about a time in that day whenever they the nation of Israel, the people, but also the nation itself, the rulers of the nation will recognize him, on whom they pierced, on whom was pierced back at the cross. This is something that was fulfilled. As you mentioned, John references this verse, obviously quoting from it to say this is fulfilled from Zechariah whenever they pierced his side. And then they will mourn, They'll weep bitterly. Well, what are they mourning about? They're mourning because they now finally recognize that they killed their Messiah and that he was the one that was there to introduce this restored kingdom, which is spoken about all throughout here in Zechariah and some of the other prophets. They're mourning, lamenting, they're weeping bitterly because now they have an official recognition that Jesus was the Messiah and that that is the one who came, yet was rejected. They're recognizing him as the one that was killed and that suffered, and they're lamenting that that even happened and weeping bitterly for that.
Speaker 1:Note the intensity of the mourning and the weeping at the last half of verse 10. It talks about mourning twice. They will mourn for him as one mourns for an only son. It also mentions bitter weeping twice, the bitter weeping over a firstborn, a favorite son. It talks about mourning twice and bitter weeping twice. It has a double emphasis over the depth and intensity of the weeping in the morning, as you well pointed out, steve, that wasn't happening.
Speaker 1:The day and the weekend there, when Jesus died, the most that were mourning was 120 followers in the upper room in Acts 1. That was really just for a couple of days until he rose from the dead again. So this didn't happen. This bitter weeping Further, some commentators have falsely claimed that. Well, it was the mourning of the 3,000 people that were saved on the day of Pentecost, when they realized their sin and repented, that they were weeping in a sense of repentance. Okay, well, I could see where somebody, when they come to Christ, could really come to terms with the depth of their sin and how big of a problem it is. But that's for a few hours. Once they're saved and they realize the glory of salvation, then the period of mourning is over. We have here a description in the following verses and we'll get to that in a minute over it compares how deep this mourning was to a specific period in the history of Israel. It just doesn't line up with when Jesus died the first time. It's not fulfilled in Jesus' day because they were celebrating, as you said, steve. The nation was celebrating. There's a relatively small number of people that were mourning, but most of them were celebrating when Jesus died.
Speaker 1:2 Corinthians 3 talks about a veil that is over the eyes of the Jewish people. That's the way it's been in Jesus' day up until today, for the majority of the Jewish people aren't mourning over Jesus. They either don't care because they're not followers of Christ or they have blinded themselves because of their sin. It's just not the case that the majority of the Jewish people in Jesus' day were in a period of bitter weeping over his death. Today, the Jewish people are not in the grace of God because as a nation they've not accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Speaker 1:God has not yet poured out his grace on Israel. It says. That's what he's saying here in this verse. I will pour out on who the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem. So it's not talking about the church. It's talking about Jerusalem as a city and the house of David as the leadership, the kingly line, as you well pointed out, steve. It's talking about the leadership of Israel and the inhabitants of the city of Jerusalem. They were not weeping and, for the most part, the grace wasn't poured out on them. It was poured out on a minority of people from all parts of Israel. Zechariah 12.10 says he will pour out his grace on Jerusalem someday. So we would hold that this verse is yet to be fulfilled, would we not? We?
Speaker 2:would, the reason being that, again, it's mentioned about in that day. This is in a series of verses that are giving a description of what's going to happen in that day. Even though you referenced, some say well, this was during the day of Pentecost. Other things that are mentioned here in chapter 12 of what's going to happen in that day didn't happen at the day or at the time of Pentecost. You said, rightly so, in the day of Jesus. Yes, I think this is definitely something that is still yet to come in the future. In that day that is referenced here in chapter 12 has not come about.
Speaker 1:The next four verses give us still more clues as to exactly how and what this morning will be like. Steve, can you read the next verses down to the end of the chapter?
Speaker 2:In that day there will be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadad-Ramon in the plain of Megiddo. The land will mourn every family by itself, the family of the house of David by itself and their wives by themselves.
Speaker 1:In verse 11,. It says these events are going to happen in that day. There's that phrase once again. It continues the thought of verse 10 that God is going to pour out on Jerusalem the spirit of grace and they will mourn for Jesus. There's going to be this widespread mourning. Before we get into an elaboration of that, steve, let's try to take it down to our day today. What type of things should we mourn for today? What kind of things would bring us to our knees in mourning.
Speaker 2:We should most definitely mourn about our sin, the things that we do to miss the mark of what God expects from us or wants us to be. It's a struggle to not sin. I'm very thankful that we have a way through Jesus Christ that we can confess our sins and our sins are covered. We have those promises but it's a struggle living in this world and trying not to sin. So for sure we should mourn and lament the sin that we have in our life, and not just in our life, I think, in the world in general. That we have in our life and not just in our life, I think in the world in general. Seeing how much sin and strife and transgressions and hatred for God that's in the world that we live in today, I think is a reason to mourn just for that on itself.
Speaker 1:When we really come to Christ, when we really look at the Word of God and compare ourselves to that, look at the Word of God as a mirror and we hold our life up to that mirror, then we really see how far we are from God and how bad our sin is.
Speaker 1:When a person comes to Christ, they really should be mourning because they realize how far and how ugly their sin is. When we sin, we do so just callously, but we don't realize how much of a crime that is against the nature of a holy and pure God. Salvation, when we first come to Christ, is a time where we realize how far we are from God and how ugly our sin is. It's a time of cleansing that's followed by happiness that we have been washed clean, but it's initially a time of mourning and it's a time where we realize how ugly our sin is. My friends, if you've not really come to terms with that, then today is the day of salvation that we should all be in mourning for how much we've rejected our God and how much we've done against him. In verse 11, though in those verses we just read it's talking about the mourning in. That day is going to be like the mourning of, and it mentions a place called Hadad Ramon in the plain of Megiddo. What it's talking about there is the worst mourning in Israel's past, when they mourned for the death of King Josiah. We find this account in 2 Chronicles, chapter 35, and in there it says quote all of Judah and Jerusalem, unquote mourned along with Jeremiah and a host of others. The mourning occurs, as it says in 2 Chronicles, to this day, which means it had started when King Josiah died. It affected all of Jerusalem and Judah. The mourning continued until the time of the writing of 2 Chronicles. To this day, the writer says so this is an ongoing, severe mourning by everyone, everybody in the land, all of Jerusalem and Judah. Matter of fact, they had set up a day of mourning, of remembrance, that was remembered on an annual basis to this day. 2 Chronicles 35 says so, that particular mourning. We don't have to question what kind of a mourning he's talking about in 1210 and 1211, because he tells us it's just like when King Josiah died, the type of mourning in Hadad Ramon in the plain of Megiddo, a continual mourning by everyone that lasts for years.
Speaker 1:At Jesus' first coming, all of Jerusalem and Judah didn't mourn. It wasn't the case that all of Jerusalem and all of Judah mourned. The only one that mourned on the day Jesus died was 120 followers in the upper room, maybe 3,000 on the day of Pentecost, but it wasn't all of Jerusalem, it wasn't all of Judah, like in Hadad Ramon. The most we could say is that these 3,000 people mourned for a very short period of time until they realized the pleasure of salvation. These verses are just not speaking of the first coming of Christ. Again, look at Zechariah 12, verse 11, great mourning in Jerusalem. Verse 12, the land will mourn every family. Verse 13, the family of the house of Levi and the Shemites. Verse 14, all the families that remain will mourn. Steve, do we see that level where every family, all the families that remain, were they all mourning at Jesus' first coming?
Speaker 2:No, the people that are back in the land today, and the government today, at the time that we speak, is mainly a secular government, meaning it's not a religious government, and they're not mourning for Jesus. They haven't officially recognized him. No, this time hasn't happened yet. As we look at this, we've talked about types and shadows and symbols in the past. Here we have an example of representation with the mention of the people of David, are going to mourn. Nathan and Levi, that's the kings, the prophets and the priests. Then the last verse talks about all the families. Zechariah here is describing the nation, and all levels of the nation, from the rulers to the prophets, to the priests, are mourning. He gives this one day and he gives this one instance of Hadad Ramon that you just explained was a national mourning period for something that had happened. No, there has not been a time that Israel in its history, has ever mourned for Jesus in a comprehensive, collective way.
Speaker 1:What some Bible teachers have falsely concluded is that, yes, when it does mention these various types of people. Again, look at it. It mentions the house of Levi, talks about the house of Nathan, talks about the Shemites. That, if you look at this, it's various different classes and groups of people. Well, some teachers have said, see, it's talking about people that became Christians from every class of people, so that there were people from every class that became Christian. When that happened, they mourned at the point of their salvation over their sin. Well, nice theory, but that's not what the text says. If we look what the text actually says all the families that remain, every family by itself, and he goes to great lengths here to say the house of Levi by itself and their wives by themselves. It's specifically saying all these families from every group.
Speaker 1:We can't shoehorn this into the first century, when Jesus came the first time. The reason we belabor this is because there is a large section of theology that hinges on whether or not there's going to be a time in the future where all of Israel becomes a follower of Jesus Christ, and whether all of Israel will then be in God's grace. People deny that and say that this has to be fulfilled today or fulfilled in the first century in the church. Well, my friend, this is not fulfilled in the church because the language here doesn't allow it. If we broad brush it, then we can shoehorn it into the salvation in the church in the first century.
Speaker 1:But you have to do exactly that broad brush it and skip over the details, because if you look at what the text actually says, it's talking about every family. So there still will come a day when Jesus Christ returns and God pours out his grace on the ethnic Jews in Israel and they will all mourn over their sin. At that point they will realize how much they have rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah. There will be mass conversions to Jesus in Israel. That is what this passage is talking about, because that's what it says it's talking about. Any comments, steve?
Speaker 2:Also in preparation for this, looking at the various commentaries and different things that people were saying, I came across a person in verse 11 where it says the plain of Megiddo, and they were referencing that to what was spoken in Revelation about the Battle of Armageddon. The Battle of Armageddon, the Megiddo, is a mountain there alongside the Jezreel Valley and it's called Har Megiddo, where we get the combination of Armageddon. There are certain things in Zechariah that are referenced in Revelation, but this is not one of them. This is not speaking of the Battle of Armageddon. This is speaking about a particular memorial that surrounded or evolved around Megiddo. So I think this is giving the specific things that we just got through. Talking about this particular part of Zechariah is not something that's referenced in the Revelation.
Speaker 1:Again, mourning over salvation in Christ is not like the verse 11 here. The mourning in Jerusalem over Hadad Ramon, in the plain of Megiddo, which was everyone in the entire land for a long period of time, was mourned over the death of King Josiah. That didn't happen in the first century. It does not happen now. When people come to Christ, there's an individual mourning over your salvation, but it's not every family from every class of people. Therefore, these sections are indeed talking about, and it's prophesying, a return of Christ that will come about in the future and will be fulfilled in the day of the Lord when Jesus comes back. And the rest of the book of Zechariah tends to get into this in a lot more detail, especially when we get to chapter 14. Right, there is the end of chapter 12, a good place to pause for today. Next time we'll get into one of the more difficult chapters in the entire Word of God, which is Zechariah, chapter 13.
Speaker 2:We're in the home stretch here the last two chapters of Zechariah. I've been enjoying it, Glenn, I know you have too. Thank you so much for watching and listening. May God bless you.
