Reasoning Through the Bible
Taking a cue from Paul, Reasoning Through the Bible is an expository style walk through the Scriptures that tells you what the Bible says. Reviewing both Old and New Testament books, as well as topical subjects, the hosts methodically show how Scripture is one cohesive story. Critical Thinking with a little bit of theology and apologetics and you have what this podcast is about. Just like Paul on Mars Hill, Christianity today must address woke, deconstruction, and progressive Christianity, all topics that are addressed if we go purposefully through the Bible. Join Glenn and Steve weekly on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday as they reason with you through the Bible.
Reasoning Through the Bible
S19 || From Babylon to Future Glory || Zechariah 10:3-12 || Session 19 || Verse by Verse Bible Study
The influence of God over nations is a central theme in today's discussion. We draw from the Apostle Paul's teachings to illustrate how recognizing our weaknesses and leaning on divine guidance can lead to incredible empowerment. Jesus Christ emerges as a cornerstone of faith, symbolizing stability and conquest. The juxtaposition of His peaceful first coming with the anticipated powerful second coming provides hope and encouragement, particularly for the Jewish people returning from Babylonian captivity. This message of restoration and empowerment resonates through the ages, offering a beacon of hope for all who seek guidance and strength through divine presence.
In the Old Testament book of Zechariah, we see some very dramatic things. In the first part of the book we saw flying scrolls and we saw women in baskets and all these fantastic things. Now we're seeing very strong language, both in a peaceful sense and in the next passage. We're going to read in Zechariah 10, it's going to be very militaristic, but it's very dramatic, just like most of the things in Zechariah, which makes it very interesting and very applicable to our lives. Let's go ahead and dive in. We're going to be in Zechariah, chapter 10. Steve, if you could read from verses 3 to 8.
Speaker 2:My anger is kindled against the shepherds and I will punish the male goats, for the Lord of hosts has visited his flock, the house ofds.
Speaker 2:And I will punish the male goats For the Lord of hosts has visited his flock, the house of Judah, and will make them like his majestic horse in battle.
Speaker 2:From them will come the cornerstone, from them the tent peg, from them the bow of battle, from them every ruler, all of them together, they will be as mighty men treading down the enemy in the mire of the streets in battle, and they will fight, for the Lord will be with them and the riders on horses will be put to shame. I will strengthen the house of Judah and I will save the house of Joseph and I will bring them back because I have compassion on them, and they will be as though I had not rejected them, for I am the Lord, their God, and I will answer them. Ephraim will be like a mighty man and their heart will be glad as if from wine. Instead, their children will see it and be glad. Their heart will rejoice in the Lord. I will whistle for them to gather them together, for I have redeemed them, and they will be as numerous as they were before.
Speaker 1:This is a passage where God is very clearly taking his people, israel, and using them militarily to defeat their enemies. He says this over and over again in this passage and has some very descriptive language on how he's going to do that. Let's go ahead and walk through this. God says in verse 3, his anger is against the leaders. Anger is against the shepherds, who are the leaders. Those were the ones who should be leading the people, but these particular shepherds were false teachers and God's anger is kindled against them. And he says he's going to punish these people. The Lord is angry with the leaders who have led the people astray. God always has greater expectations for the leaders. With greater responsibility comes greater accountability. Have you found that to be true, steve?
Speaker 2:Yes, I have found that to be true. Remember, at James it says that teachers have a greater accountability of what they're teaching because they're teaching the God's Word. That's just one example. But as Christians, as followers of Jesus Christ, that comes with that is a responsibility. We should know God's Word and preach God's Word in a correct manner. That's the responsibility, or at least one responsibility, that we have.
Speaker 1:God always holds His people accountable. Yes, he makes promises that he will come through for his people. We can trust God to keep his promises to bless us, but he also holds us accountable for our actions and accountable for the truth that he's given us. But again, this passage very dramatic, very high literature here because of the language that he's using. In verse 3, he says here that the house of Judah, the people of the tribe of Judah, belong to God and he will use them as majestic victors in war.
Speaker 1:The Hebrew poetry here is very descriptive. He makes a contrast in the early parts of the passage we just read with the people being like lost sheep. By the time he gets down to verse 5, he talks about them as majestic horses. Well, horses were animals of war. So he's going to turn them from lost sheep following false shepherds to majestic war horses that are going to go out into battle and be victorious against God's enemies.
Speaker 1:The imagery here that is followed even in the New Testament is that God can take a lump of clay and make it into a valuable vessel for honored use. God can take very plain things and turn it into very special things. Remember, jesus turned the water into wine. He took something, just plain water, and he turned it into something very, very special. Not just any old wine, very good wine. So that's the picture here he takes a lost sheep and turns it into a majestic war horse. Steve, can God today take people who are just plain people, plain or even worthless people? If we're honest with ourselves, at least in some cases we've done some worthless things. If we're honest with ourselves, can God take plain or even worthless people and make them into something very valuable, very special, isn't that the story throughout Scripture.
Speaker 2:Abraham was a man that was in Ur of the Chaldees and God called him out and gave him promises. Abraham believed those promises and God reckoned it to him as righteousness. David was just a shepherd boy and yet he went up against the great giant Goliath. We see Gideon Gideon. When we looked at him at the very beginning of Judges, he was down in a threshing floor, kind of hidden below because of the oppression that was going on I think it was the Midianites. But yet God said I'm going to be with you, and Gideon became a great warrior. We could go on and on and on with the different stories, but they're all stories of just ordinary people who God then takes and changes them whenever they become believers in him, and he promises to be with them. I think that's a story throughout all of Scripture. So it's got to be true with us as well, don't you think?
Speaker 1:My friends, if you think you're special, then God's not going to be able to use you. If you think you're something or have some talents, then God's probably not going to be able to use you. He can use you when you realize that you're nothing, when you realize that on your own you really can't do this. That's why the Apostle Paul over in the New Testament says when I'm weak, I'm strong, because that's when God can use him. God can use him, not when he was in oh, I'm so educated and I'm so smart. No, no, he says when I realize I can accomplish nothing apart from the Lord, now God can use him. That's the message all the way back here in Zechariah.
Speaker 2:Glenn, let me just add one little thing to what you said. There is that all those examples that I gave, none of those people were looking to be used by the Lord, but yet God took them to be used and they followed him and said I will go and follow you and do what you want me to do.
Speaker 1:Zechariah in this passage says that God is going to take very plain people and make them into something very special warhorses. Then in verse 4, he says from them our translation says them, many of the translations say him and even the footnotes here say him. From him will come the cornerstone, a tent peg, the bow of battle, and all these rulers and mighty men. He's speaking, of course, of the people of Judah, the Jewish people. The cornerstone, of course, is the Messiah. Over in the New Testament, 1 Peter 2.6 says that Christ is our cornerstone. From the Messiah in this passage will therefore come tent pegs, battle bows, which all speak of a military campaign or a military rule. Christ is going to be both the cornerstone, which is the foundation of the church. He's also going to be a military leader who will bring together people in the name of God. Jesus. Christ is the center of God's plan. Only through him will we be made right with God. Only on him will we be able to build a foundation of our lives and a foundation for our countries.
Speaker 1:It speaks there of a tent peg. Well, a tent peg, if you think of it, a tent peg does what it holds the tent down. You have to take the tent peg and drive it into the ground so that the tent doesn't fall over in a strong wind. Tent pegs were used to hold down things in strong winds. Isaiah 22, 23 says quote I will fasten him, meaning God or the Messiah, as a peg in a secure place. If we want to have a secure life that doesn't blow away with every wind of doctrine, then we need a strong tent peg that's driven deep into the ground, wouldn't you agree, steve?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and we have different descriptions in Scripture of God and the calmness and the soothing demeanor that we get. I think in one of the passages it talks about a tree by a stream where it drives its roots and it can gather that water from that stream. God is depicted as a person that wants to have a relationship with us and wants to nurture us. We see that here as he's talking about bringing Israel back and about being with Israel and how he's going to use them and utilize them. Once again, it's a God that's involved within our lives on a daily basis. It's not a God that's just off in the distance somewhere.
Speaker 1:He also speaks in there of a battle bow. Of course that's a weapon of war. We're reminded that Jesus' first coming was one of peace. He came lowly and gentle, riding on a donkey. His first coming was one of peace and reconciliation, joy into the world and peace through Jesus Christ. His second coming, by contrast to that, is going to be very different. The second coming is going to be as a conqueror, and he's going to have a sword. He's going to be riding a white horse that tells us in the book of Revelation, with fire in his eyes, and he's going to conquer his sword. He's going to be riding a white horse that tells us in the book of Revelation, with fire in his eyes, and he's going to conquer his enemies. He's going to be very different than the Jesus that we expect today. The first coming of Jesus the Jewish leaders wanted a military leader to overcome the Roman oppression and what they got was gentle Jesus that overcame our sin. The next time, people today are going to be crying out for peace because we're in a time of upheaval and chaos in the world, and instead he's going to come in and he's going to get rid of the chaos because he's going to take over. He's going to come with his battle bow, riding his white horse, and he's going to come in and fix everything, because he's going to be the king on the white horse riding in the sun and it's going to be a great day.
Speaker 1:Verse 5 speaks of mighty men and we're reminded there of back in King David's day. It spoke of King David's mighty men, the Jews. You have to remember where they were at this point emotionally. We keep reminding our audience of that. They had just come back from oppression for 70 years in Babylon. Their cities were destroyed. They were flat on their backs, emotionally and spiritually. Along comes Zechariah in this passage with a great message saying Messiah will come and he's going to have a battle bow and the temple's going to get rebuilt. The law is going to go out across the land, god's going to be a fire around the city and he's going to get rid of all your enemies and you're going to be like mighty men. This would have been words of encouragement to a very downtrodden people?
Speaker 2:Yes, because look again where they are. They're back from their captivity. But they were allowed to come back. Cyrus had given a decree allowing them to come back. They weren't able to break free. There wasn't any type of a revolt to bring them back into Jerusalem. So, yeah, this is very much encouraging that God is promising them that he's going to restore them back into Jerusalem. So, yeah, this is very much encouraging that God is promising them that he's going to restore them.
Speaker 2:In the very next verse there, verse 6, he says I will strengthen the house of Judah and I will save the house of Joseph and bring them back. That's a depiction of the northern kingdom of Israel that was named Israel Joseph, of the northern kingdom of Israel that was named Israel Joseph, the two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim they were the two largest tribes there of the northern part of the kingdom of Israel, and then, of course, Judah was that southern part. So he's saying here they're going to be united again. He's going to bring them back once again. So, absolutely, it'd be an encouragement for a people who have been in captivity for 70 years and their temple is still not rebuilt and the walls of their city are down. Absolutely, this would be a point of encouragement of God, giving them a picture of how they were once again going to be used by him.
Speaker 1:Steve, here's the next question. We talked previously about how God can take just plain people and turn them into something very special. He can dramatically turn around an individual person's life. Battle, that is a very dramatic case of a military people that are just totally dominating and conquering an enemy. The question here is can God do with nations a similar thing that he does with individual people? Because he's talking here now about battle and armies and nations and lifting some up and tearing some down. We know he can take an individual life and turn it around. Can God move nations around like a master chessman would move people around on a chessboard? Can he decide which nations will rise up and be strong and which ones need to be torn down? Does God have that kind of power and does he actually do it throughout history and even in the future?
Speaker 2:He has the power and he does it. Scripture again validates that. Back in Daniel it was mentioned as to Nebuchadnezzar and that he raised Nebuchadnezzar up and was used by Nebuchadnezzar. At one point Nebuchadnezzar recognized that. Then he got full of himself, of pride, and he was taught a lesson of what pride leads to Cyrus.
Speaker 2:Back in Isaiah it was prophesied that there would be a King, cyrus, that would come and give a decree for the people to come back 150 years before Cyrus was ever even born, that that prophecy came through Isaiah and it comes to fruition here, as I mentioned, that Cyrus gave this decree. Those are just two examples In the first part of Zechariah. Here it explicitly says that God used the nation, the Babylon, to discipline the nation of Israel, the Hebrews' kingdom of Israel and the kingdom of Judah, but yet they went too far, and that God was going to discipline those nations who went too far. Yeah, scripture is full of the depiction of God working through nations to not only discipline the apple of his eye, as he said in chapter 2, verse 8, but also other nations around. And there's also a depiction for Scripture that the nations of this world are going to be dealt with for the evil things that they have done throughout history.
Speaker 1:I'm reminded of the Exodus, when God sovereignly decided to use Pharaoh as an example, and he used him in a way to show that who is really in control of nations. Here he even says so here. If we look at verse 6 in Zechariah, 10 here notice here in verse 6, and Steve count with me how many times he says who is responsible for causing the success of his people? Let me read again in verse 6.
Speaker 1:I will strengthen the house of Judah and I will save the house of Joseph. I will bring them back because I have had compassion on them. It will be as though I had not rejected them, for I am the Lord, their God, and I will answer them. So he says at least five times in that one verse I am going to cause this to happen. If you say it five times in one verse, it would seem like we'd get the message that he is the one who is in control of the nations and he can raise them up as he sees fit and he can tear them down as he sees fit. If we would but follow his advice and his guidelines, then we would be much better off. It seems like every nation in history has to relearn the lesson over and over again.
Speaker 2:Let me say right here too, glenn and we're going to read the rest of it here in just a little bit but here he calls out, in verse 6 of what you just read, that he says I'm going to bring them back. Why? Because he has compassion on them. Earlier in the text it says he's doing it because of his covenant that he had with them. When we get here in verse 9 and beyond, to the end of chapter 10, it'll be a little bit more explicit. But this is talking about a time that's still yet in the future, because they're already back now. Yet he's giving this description of encouragement of how he is going to use Israel in the future, bringing them back. Well, they're coming back right now. In the verses coming up he's going to explain a little bit more what type of a time frame we can take from this.
Speaker 1:In these next few verses specifically verses 5 to 8, it becomes a little bit of a challenge to determine when in history this is being spoken of, and we've dealt with why that is in the past. But we have in here places where he specifically talks about gathering the Jewish people and also scattering them. Again he mentions that specifically and again the main point I think is very clear is that who is in charge here and it's the Lord God, he is the one that can gather them and he can scatter them again as he sees fit. He is predicting what's going to happen when he does these things. I think we can be sure of a few things. These verses 5 through 8, at the time they were written were still future to Zechariah. Now could they be speaking of the intertestamental period, the time of the Maccabean Wars, when the Greeks came in and then the Jews under Judas Maccabeus pushed them back out again. It's possible, because again he's talking in parts here about how the Jews are going to be victorious, but he's also talking about them being scattered. Again it could be speaking of the Maccabean period. It also could be speaking of the Great Tribulation period, when the Jews will be attacked and ultimately be victorious with God's help. That's what we're told is going to happen during the Great Tribulation period. The passage seems to fit better in the Great Tribulation because it speaks of an ultimate victory which neither the Jews nor the church have had in the past. When God brings Israel back to the land, in the sense of Zechariah, chapter 10, he's going to do it dramatically, he's going to do it with power. In that day, the Jews are going to be victorious over their enemies and will not have enemies at their gates like they do today. That's what I see in this passage. But again, the main point, I think, is very clear, which is God's in control and he's not going to forget his people. He's going to judge them for sin and he can scatter them as he sees fit and he can gather them back again. We've seen that happen over and over again in history. As we record this, the Jews are in the land.
Speaker 1:Some Bible teachers would say see God's gathering them back again. Well, maybe a little, but there's a million to a million and a half Jewish people just in New York City. They're still scattered amongst the nations for a large part. So can God bring them back again? Can he then scatter them again? And the answer is yes. The question is do we really trust him and will we submit to his authority to do that? Because I'm not going to sit here, steve, and say God's limited. But I would say this it seems to fit better in the Great Tribulation period. What are your thoughts on this passage? I do see that Glenn fitting better.
Speaker 2:And in 9 through 12, I think it becomes a little bit clear and again we'll read that here in just a second that God says that he's going to redeem them. Everything that he's giving here as a description is something that I think definitely in the future of Zachariah's timing. That's obvious, that it is, even if the timeframe of that Maccabean revolt and such and afterwards they were still under occupation from Greece, from Rome, when it comes into the New Testament period, and they were under occupation or they were a province of some other empire until they were finally pushed out in AD 70 when Rome destroyed their temple, and then 135, whenever they finally had the final revolt, rome got tired of them having all these revolts and they scattered all the people out. I think that definitely this is talking about a timeframe that's at least past that and they didn't come back and regather into the land, as you just mentioned, until the 20th century. I think that this is definitely speaking about a time as sometime in the future the last part of verse 8 there it says and they will be as numerous as they were before Well, you just mentioned, they were before.
Speaker 2:Well, you just mentioned there's still millions of the Jewish people that are still outside the land amongst the other nations of the world today. This is speaking of a time whenever they're all going to be come back and all regathered. But to your point, who's doing it? God is doing it, and he's doing it for himself. He's done it to redeem his people.
Speaker 1:There's more clues in this passage that would lead, at least me, to believe that it's still future to today. Verse 6, quote they will be as though I had not rejected them. Then, down in verse 8, quote they will be as numerous as they were before. So what he's saying in those two passages I'm going to restore Israel back to the place where there's many of them it's though I had not rejected them. Well, that's not going to happen as long as they have rejected their Messiah, as long as they've rejected the Lord Jesus Christ, he's not going to bless them as a nation, not in a biblical sense of what he's talking about here. He will keep his promise, but ultimately, he judged them because they rejected their Messiah. Until they come back and accept the Lord Jesus Christ, it's not going to be like in verse 6, they will be as though I had not rejected them, because they're still going to be rejected until they, as a nation, accept the Lord Jesus. What we see here, though, is that, again, god is in control of these nations, and it speaks in these terms. That, I think, is clear enough to know that we've got the Jewish people, and then the non-Jewish people, and he's going to speak here, steve, of Judah and Ephraim, which represent both the old southern and the old northern kingdoms. Ephraim was one of the ten northern tribes. Judah, of course, was the southern one. God doesn't think they're lost. There's people that think there's ten lost tribes. Well, god doesn't seem to think so. Verse 8 seems to say that all he has to do is whistle and they're going to be gathered back again Again.
Speaker 1:One of the things we could be solid on here is that God can gather them back again and he can scatter them as he sees fit. Verse 6, god's going to bring the Jews back or restore them. And then verse 8, god's going to gather the Jews together and redeem them. Notice what God does in verse 9. We'll read from 9 to 12. When I scatter them amongst the peoples, they will remember me in far countries and they, with their children will live and come back. I will bring them back from the land of Egypt and gather them from Assyria, and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon. Until no room can be found for them, they will pass through the sea of distress. He will strike the waves of the sea so that all the depths of the Nile will dry up and the pride of Assyria will be brought down and the scepter of Egypt will depart. And I will strengthen them in the Lord and His name. They will walk, declares the Lord. With this, in God's wisdom, as we said, he can scatter his people. He can gather them back again. It says in verse 9, these countries are north and south and turn to him. He will gather them from Assyria and from Egypt, which brings up a few following things. These countries are north and south, which could represent returning Jews from all directions.
Speaker 1:Egypt was the first to hold the Jews captive way back in Exodus, and Assyria is one of the last. That's one of the implications here is that it could be referring to not only north and south, but across time. It's that I'm going to bring these people from everywhere they've ever been taken from. Assyria took Israel captive prior to Babylon taking Judah, but it was not the case that Egypt took significant numbers of Jews captive at the same time Assyria did.
Speaker 1:These two lines are another Hebrew poetic couplet that usually talks about the same thing. That's what's going on here when it talks about Egypt and Assyria. If you remember the Hebrew poetry, it has a line and then it'll repeat it saying the same thing. Therefore, it would seem that it's talking in general about bringing Jews back from foreign countries. What we I think Steve can note that if God gathers his people from Assyria, then we can be confident that 10 tribes weren't lost. At least the ones he wanted to bring back got brought back, and we can wonder about the timing on it. But the purpose of it, I think, is really clear in the sense that he's going to bring them back to the land, and that, again, is a message that we've seen over and over and over again. He brought them back after the Exodus, he brought them back after Babylon and he can scatter them again and bring them back once again if he sees fit.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to get too far ahead in our text that we were dealing with, but now that we've read 9 through 12, I think, brings home that this is something that's happening in the future, beyond the Maccabean revolt. I think it's beyond the Roman period, as I just mentioned before, and I do think it's beyond where they are now. They've come back in the 20th century, but they're not living for God as a nation. Their leadership is not one that is recognizing God from a standpoint as a nation and they still have many of their people, as I mentioned before, scattered throughout the world. This is still something in the future. I think the tribulation period does match it the most accurately because at that time all the nations are going to come against Israel and Jesus is going to come in his second coming. We'll see that in the latter parts of Zechariah. It talks about that. We still have some things that we've got to talk about here, but I just want to mention here. In verse 9, it says when I scatter them among the peoples, they'll remember me in far countries and their children will live and come back. That has partially been done. When they were scattered, they did remember their traditions, they did remember God. Obviously they don't have a temple and they weren't able to do sacrifices and things like that, and they have partially come back in these latter parts here of 10, 11, and 12.
Speaker 2:I agree with you totally, glenn, that it's talking about, I think, in general, coming back from the northern and southern areas there, egypt was always represented as something that represented the world. It was the major antagonist of the people. God over and over again says I'm the God that brought you out of Egypt. I think the first part there in verse 11 harkens back to that when he says they'll pass through the sea of distress. You know, strike the waves of the sea and so all the depths of the Nile will dry up. I think that's again a reference back to him bringing them out of bondage in Egypt.
Speaker 2:Whenever the Exodus, he's kind of giving them assurance that he's going to bring them back again. All of chapter 10 is clear that the nation of Israel and the Jewish people are still people that God is going to redeem. He's going to bring them back but at the same time what you've also said during this time they're going to be where they're recognizing God as their God. Their leadership that rejected Jesus, their leadership here is going to come back and recognize him as being the Messiah. That's the timeframe that this is speaking about, so I think it's still in the future. I think the tribulation time does best match that.
Speaker 1:I think it's pretty solid that it's also not speaking about salvation in the church age. We can't really hold that position without changing the meaning of large sections of this. Look at what it talks about. It talks about the Nile, assyria, egypt, lebanon, gilead. There's large parts of this that are just steeped in Jewish history. There's large parts of this that are just steeped in Jewish history, and unless we just change the meaning of words in large sections of Scripture, then we really can't be honest with the Scriptures and do that. Therefore, it really is talking about a future day when the Jews are going to walk in the name of the Lord, verse 12.
Speaker 1:That's not happening today, as you rightly pointed out. There will come a day when that happens, when the nation of Israel will get a seminary education overnight and they're going to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and follow him. From that we have passages such as Genesis 49.10, quote the scepter will not depart from Judah. The scepter, of course, is the king will not depart from Judah and, of course, who was from the tribe of Judah? The lion of the tribe of Judah is the king, the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus will return. He will hold the throne of David from Jerusalem. The scepter will not depart from Judah, and he will gather his people and they will indeed follow the Lord Jesus Christ. That's what we have here in the book of Zechariah.
Speaker 2:And that's going to be a great time I'm looking forward to.
Speaker 1:With that we're out of time for today, but a great, great passage here. As you see, there's some really valuable things here in the Minor Prophets. We'll be back next time to reason through chapter 11.
Speaker 2:Thank, you so much for watching and listening, as always. May God bless you.
