Reasoning Through the Bible
Taking a cue from Paul, Reasoning Through the Bible is an expository style walk through the Scriptures that tells you what the Bible says. Reviewing both Old and New Testament books, as well as topical subjects, the hosts methodically show how Scripture is one cohesive story. Critical Thinking with a little bit of theology and apologetics and you have what this podcast is about. Just like Paul on Mars Hill, Christianity today must address woke, deconstruction, and progressive Christianity, all topics that are addressed if we go purposefully through the Bible. Join Glenn and Steve weekly on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday as they reason with you through the Bible.
Reasoning Through the Bible
S10 || Chariots of Judgment and the Path to Peace || Zechariah 5:5 - 6:8 || Session 10 || Verse by Verse Bible Study
What if the ancient visions of Zechariah could illuminate our understanding of justice and redemption today? Explore the symbolic narrative of a flying woman in a basket from Zechariah chapter 5, where profound elements like an ephah basket and stork-like wings intertwine with themes of wickedness and divine intervention. Discover how this vision signifies God's commitment to purging evil and critique unethical practices, drawing connections to the prophet Amos’s condemnations of Israel’s deceitful commercial habits. Dive into the captivating realm of Zechariah chapter six, where four chariots emerge as divine instruments, observing and executing God’s wrath across the earth, signaling a future of peace and justice. These ancient war engines not only symbolize swift judgment but also resonate with themes of love and redemption. Through this exploration, Christians are reassured of salvation from divine wrath through Jesus’s ultimate sacrifice. Expect an engaging journey through the symbolic universe of Zechariah as we tackle the thematic pillars of judgment and restoration.
Today on Reasoning Through the Bible. We're in the Old Testament book of Zechariah, chapter 5. Reasoning through the Bible we're in the Old Testament book of Zechariah, chapter 5. We've been going through a series of visions that God gave to the prophet Zechariah, and today we have a very fantastic vision of a flying woman in a basket. Its meaning is quite clear, though, as we will see as we go through it, but let's go ahead and jump in. If you have your Bibles open to Zechariah, chapter 5, starting in verse 5, steve, could you read down to verse 11?
Speaker 2:Then the angel who was speaking with me went out and said to me Lift up now your eyes and see what this is going forth. I said what is it? And he said this is the ephah going forth. And again he said this is their appearance in all the land. And behold, a lead cover was lifted up and this is a woman sitting inside the ephah. Then he said this is wickedness. And he threw her down into the middle of the ephah and cast the lead weight on its opening. Then I lifted up my eyes and looked and there two women were coming out with the wind in their wings. They had wings like the wings of a stork. They lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heavens. I said to the angel who was speaking with me when are they taking the ephah? Then he said to me to build a temple for her in the land of Shinar, and when it is prepared, she will be set there on her own pedestal.
Speaker 1:With this, we have this fantastic vision of this woman in an ephah. Now, an ephah is merely a basket. It was about the size of a bushel basket. It was used for gathering grain and fruit and agricultural products, for gathering in the field and then selling. That's what she's in. We have this woman in this ephah, steve. What is the summary of all that happened in this vision? He?
Speaker 2:is seeing this vision of this woman that's being put in this basket. There's a lead lid put on it. There are two creatures that calls them women with wings like stork, that come and take this basket over to the land of Shinar and there's going to be a temple built there for this woman in the basket. The woman in the basket is named Wickedness. We know what it's supposed to represent. Then, whenever the temple is built, this wickedness will be put on a pedestal there. I think, glenn, this is a case where, through the text, of reading the plain meaning of the text, that this is a representation or a symbolic language, just for the simple reason that an actual woman wouldn't be able to fit into a bushel basket. So I think it's clear that this is symbolic language that is being talked about here.
Speaker 1:It's very symbolic, very figurative, but the good news is he tells us exactly what it means. We don't have to guess. As you said, it tells us in verse 8 that the woman represents evil. This is wickedness. Then the basket could represent, possibly, commercial activity, because he's using a specific basket. It's an ephah, it's one used for harvesting, selling, transporting wheat, things like that. The woman, which is the main point of the exercise, is that evil is contained. They put a lead weight on top and it's taken away to a foreign land.
Speaker 1:The clear, clear teaching of this is that God's going to take wickedness, gather it up and send it away. That's the clear teaching of the vision. Now we can follow the symbolism further and say well, is God saying that, for example, because he's using a specific basket, not just any basket, but an ephah, which is used for buying and selling? Is he therefore condemning commercialization? That's entirely possible that the people of Israel, by this point, had gotten so focused on making money that they weren't very interested in godly things. So it's entirely possible he was also communicating that hey, guys, your business practices. Nothing necessarily wrong with business practices, unless that's the main focus of your life. If that's the main focus of your life, you've got your eye on the wrong thing. You really need to be focused on spiritual things, but nevertheless, the vision of the woman in the basket, the interpretation of it is quite clear, because the passage tells us it is it's wickedness that has been gathered up. And then there was a lead weight on top. What would the lead weight represent, steve?
Speaker 2:I think that it's clear that it's a lead weight, so it's heavy and it's going to cover and keep this wickedness in the basket contained until a time whenever it's going to be let out.
Speaker 1:Yes, again, it's very clear the evil is going to be contained, put in a basket, put a lead weight on top so it can't get out, and then it's flown away. So it's going to go away quickly. That's what's communicated here is that evil is gathered up and taken away quickly. One of the reasons why some Bible commenters hold that God might also be saying that commercialization is wickedness is not only the ephah basket, but there were prophets that had condemned evil business practices already in Israel, for example, amos, the Old Testament prophet Amos accused Israel.
Speaker 1:God, through Amos, accused Israel of quote falsifying the scales by deceit. Unquote that's in Amos 8.5. The scales were the ones where you would weigh out products and buy and sell. In the Old Testament law you were supposed to have a fair scale. You're supposed to have fair weights. You're not supposed to have two sets, one for buying and one for selling, that are marked the same so that I could cheat and make money. So God, through Amos, had accused Israel of falsifying business practices and being deceptive in their business. It very well could be that God is reinforcing that it's not just general wickedness but it could be business wickedness Business wickedness in the sense of you're not being fair, the lead weight again is on top and the evil is taken where. Where does it say they fly?
Speaker 2:away to. It's taken to the land of Shinar, which is another word for Babylon. We can go back to Nimrod and see what happened there, in the land of Shinar. That's really where we first time we hear that is in Genesis, where Nimrod became a great hunter and also where the Tower of Babel was built, from which we get the word.
Speaker 1:Babylon, babylon, throughout the scriptures is a symbol of evil, all the way back to Genesis with Nimrod, as you mentioned. When God judged Israel, he sent in Babylon that was representative of evil. He said here in Zechariah that he's going to judge Babylon because of the wickedness. He's also mentioned Babylon in the book of Revelation. Babylon, from start to finish, is always a symbol of evil, because they actually were evil. God is the one who controls and moves nations around. That's what we have here. The woman is represented. Evil is put in a basket, a lead weight's put on top to contain it and it's flown away quickly to Shinar, which is a provenance in Babylon. It's set up there as a kind of in a temple, so to speak. But again, we can get even more meaning out of this the wings of two women that were holding the basket flying off, and it says they had wings like a stork.
Speaker 1:Anytime you see an animal in the Bible, you always have to ask okay, is this a clean or an unclean animal? According to Leviticus, because it tells us things, storks were unclean animals. The idea that there were wings like storks one, it's just big, but two, these were evil birds. Wings like storks, these were evil beings that were being taken away. They were unclean animals. It's evil from start to finish. The evil in the vision is amplified by the fact that they're carried away on stork wings.
Speaker 1:Israel had been taken captive by Babylon and they had come back with some of the evil things that they had brought back from Babylon. Israel must have brought some of that back. God says. I'm going to gather it up and send it back to Babylon, and apparently the evil is taken where it originated. He's sending it back to where it came from. God will allow a temple to be built in Babylon for the evil and worshipped there. The end of verse 11 says this that sitting on a pedestal in a temple is suggested of an evil idol of some sort. Steve, the vision here is actually quite clear on what it means. How could the people of Israel apply that to their lives at that time when they got this?
Speaker 2:vision. Well, as we mentioned the land of Shinar, they would know that that is the area where Nimrod was. They know the story of the Babylon and the scattering of nations. They know that this woman in the basket is named Wickedness. As you mentioned, the stork wings were unclean animals named wickedness.
Speaker 2:As you mentioned, the stork wings were unclean animals, and so, therefore, this is a picture of something that is wicked or evil being taken off to this land of Babylon, where the Tower of Babel was built, and that is going to be contained with this lead lid until a temple or house is going to be built, and then this wickedness will manifest itself on this pedestal that's going to be put there. Now, at this particular time, they're coming back from exile, from Babylon, and Persia has actually defeated them, the Babylonians. That's why they're being allowed to come back, so it can't be the first captivity of them being taken off, because that's already happened. So this has to be some sort of a future event of something else happening in Babylon that's going to be wicked. There's going to be a temple or a house, and this wickedness is going to be set up there.
Speaker 1:God is very clear with the vision he's going to gather up wickedness from the land of Israel, contain it and send it away quickly where it will be set up on a pedestal where some sort of worship or honor. So here's the next question, steve Do some cultures set up wicked things and honor it or even worship it? Are there some cultures that would do that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there are cultures today that actually worship evilness in their rituals and the things that they do. I have actually seen some of the videos of opening ceremonies for different things that have happened buildings, also videos out of some of these ritualistic parties and things like that that they have. All you can really say about them is that it is evil, even say that it's demonic. So, yeah, this was taking place then and even up until our time Also, I think about back before they were taken into captivity. At one point, Molech and the people of Molech were offering their babies to this idol of Molech. So, yes, all throughout time, there have been cultures that have worshipped evil things that they mentioned that were gods and idols. I think it's the same thing that we have in our day and age.
Speaker 1:We do have evil in our day and age and people set up evil things to honor it. The heart is desperately wicked and far from God, and who can know it? These two visions that were in chapter 5, the first one was the flying scroll that had the law on it that flew through the land and would then cast judgment Then there's the woman in the basket that were represented evil that's going to be contained and sent away quickly. Both those visions were flying, which means it's going to happen quickly. What God is communicating in these two visions is the same thing really is that there will come a day when he very quickly, very swiftly, judges the land and drives out all evil. Now he doesn't tell us when, yet We'll get an idea before we get out of the book, but God is very clearly saying that there's evil in the land and it needs to be dealt with. There's evil in the land and God will deal with it. God is clear that he's going to remove evil and have a holy people. Now, steve, that concept is that true today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is true today that he's going to be just and evil is going to be dealt with at some time. Scripture tells us that Now, with the Israelites, they were looking forward to this Messiah that was going to set up a restored kingdom and make things right. Now, in our day and age, we know that that Messiah is Jesus and that he is also going to be ruling the nations there in this new messianic kingdom. Justice is going to be dealt with. God is going to take care of it, and it's something that we can look forward to and hope for.
Speaker 1:That brings us to Zechariah, chapter six, where we still see yet another vision, and we'll go ahead and read there.
Speaker 1:I'm reading in Zechariah six, verse one, about the vision of the four chariots.
Speaker 1:Now I lifted up my eyes again and looked and behold, four chariots were coming forth from between the two mountains, and the mountains were bronze mountains. With the first chariot were red horses, with the second chariot black horses, with the third chariot white horses and with the fourth chariot strong, dappled horses. Then I spoke and said to the angel who was speaking with me what are these, my lord? The angel replied to me these are the four spirits of heaven going forth after standing before the lord of all the earth, with one of which the black horses are going forth to the north country and the white ones go forth after them, while the dappled ones go forth to the south country. When the strong ones went out, they were eager to go to patrol the earth and he said go, patrol the earth. They patrolled the earth. Then he cried out to me and spoke to me saying see, those who are going to the land of the north have appeased my wrath in the land of the north, steve, what happened in that vision?
Speaker 2:It's a vision of these four chariots. As with some of the other visions, it's explained what they are. It says that these chariots have to do with the eyes going out into the earth, the different areas it mentions. Some go to the north and some to the south. Well, it mentions some go to the north and some to the south. Well, the south was Egypt, to the north was the Assyrian, babylonian, other areas that were there and, as we've mentioned before, israel was on this area where the three continents met. There were battles that were going back and forth through that land, as different nations were battling each other there in the north and the south. So it tells us here very plainly what's going on. These are chariots and people commanding the chariots that are patrolling the earth.
Speaker 1:Well, there were these four horses with four colors. There was red, and black and white and dappled, and they were pulling chariots. Now, in ancient times, what was a chariot used for?
Speaker 2:Chariots were a weapon of war and they were usually commandeered by a driver. Then they would have maybe one, maybe two soldiers in them, some that had arrows, some that would have spears. There were different combinations that they were used. They also had items that were on the wheels that could go and cut the legs out for men. So they were definitely used as weapons of war.
Speaker 1:Chariots in those days were fast vehicles that men could stand in and move quickly because of the speed of the horses and it would provide some protection with shields on the side and they could fire bows or spears from it. Chariots were not just to get from place to place. Chariots were weapons of war. These were war vehicles. So these four horses are pulling these and it talks about where they went and Steve, who sent these chariots. That's one of the key things here. Where are these coming out from?
Speaker 2:It says that when he lifted up his eyes, he says there were four chariots coming forth from between two mountains, and the mountains were bronze mountains. Now, bronze is usually a depiction of some sort of a judgment. You have this picture here that the chariots are being sent forth and there's some sort of a judgment that has taken place in this vision.
Speaker 1:There is a judgment. These are coming forth from God sent out. The end of verse 8 actually gives us the answer to exactly why these chariots were out there. We don't have to guess. Just like most of the visions, it makes it quite clear what the chariots were for. We don't have to guess. Just like most of the visions, it makes it quite clear what the chariots were for. So at the end of verse 8, steve, what does it say they were for?
Speaker 2:It says that it was there to appease God's wrath, specifically from the land of the north, but this is something that God has sent out in order to appease the wrath that he has on this land.
Speaker 1:He has wrath on the land. God has anger. That brings up a couple of questions. One do we have a God that gets angry? There's many Bible teachers that only focus on God's goodness and God's blessings and God's healings and things like that. We do have a God that is good and we do have a God that's blessing. But one question is does God get angry sometimes? And then the second question is what type of things would make him angry? Well, we've known.
Speaker 2:Earlier in the book he talked about the nations that he had used to bring about judgment on the nation of Israel, but yet they had gone too far. This was one thing he mentioned that he was going to punish those nations. Sin, sin and disobedience of him, those things bring about wrath and judgment from him. At some point the story of Jonah he told Jonah you need to go to Nineveh and tell them to repent. If they don't repent, tell Jonah you need to go to Nineveh and tell them to repent. If they don't repent, then I'm going to destroy them. He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and two of the other cities on the plain. We do have demonstrations of God's wrath to bring about justice on the earth throughout the Old Testament.
Speaker 1:God is always angry at sin and he's always loving towards repentance. When God is wrathful, it's because people had committed evil deeds and not repented. That's always the reason. But what he's communicating here is very clear. He sends out these horses that move quickly, with these vehicles of war chariots on them, and he's sending them on all these directions north, south. They're going all over the land and that is to punish those that were sinning. That's the idea here. He's punishing sin. The good news for us, steve, is that we can avoid that, because all we have to do is accept Jesus. He took our punishment for us, so we don't have to worry about God sending out his wrath to punish us if we are Christians, because God expended His wrath on His Son Jesus but if we are not in Christ, then we should worry about God's wrath.
Speaker 2:Can I also just take a Time to point out earlier in the book it talked about these horses that were in among the myrtle trees and that scripture told us that these were spirits that were being sent out to patrol the earth. They reported back and said everything is peaceful. But here we have the same thing. These chariots are being sent out to patrol the earth, but they're weapons of war and God's wrath is being appeased. So I think it's kind of unique that we have in the earlier chapters just horsemen in the myrtle trees that are patrolling, giving back reports, but yet here we have actual warriors that are going out in order to bring wrath upon a land.
Speaker 1:It's not peace that they're bringing back out in order to bring wrath upon a land. It's not peace that they're bringing back. When we have four colored horses going out here in Zechariah, it makes one horse and the second one, a third one, a fourth one that goes out into the land and they have colors. Well, if we compare the two to these, it'll give us an idea of whether we can determine are these the same horses? They're talking about the same event. What we find if we compare them is that there's some similarities and there's some differences. Three of the colors are the same and one of them's different. That's a difference. Another one is that the point here is to cause death because of God's wrath. I mean that's the purpose of a chariot. The ones in Revelation clearly cause death because of God's wrath. I mean that's the purpose of a chariot. The ones in Revelation clearly caused death because of God's wrath. There's some similarities but there's some differences and I don't think we can make a strong case to say that they have to be the same event. I would think that there's some differences here, some major ones that would lead us to believe that when the apostle John wrote Revelation, he was picking up on some of these Old Testament themes and using these visions or at least God was, to John Namely, if we look at the verses here in Zechariah, where are the horses going? It says they're going to the north, verse 8, the horses went out to give God's wrath to the land of the north. Well, it's north of where? Well, it's north of Israel, north of Jerusalem. Therefore, who is to the north of Jerusalem? Well, the north of the land of Israel was. Babylon was considered to be from the north because the armies would come from there. Just because the desert to the east. If you're going to travel an army, you'd go around the desert and come in from the north.
Speaker 1:In Ezekiel 38, it also mentions Gog and Magog that live to the north. They were a symbol of evil. That's in Ezekiel 38, 14. Therefore, I think the vision is clear here in Zechariah that's somewhat different than the one in Revelation is that these horses were going out to punish the enemies of Israel that lived in the north, either Babylon, or Gog and Magog, or some symbol of evil Gentile nations to the north. If we follow the visions that were happening in this series of visions, we have the flying scroll going out, taking away those that were liars and thieves. Then we have the evil that's left gathered up and put in a basket and sent off to Babylon. Then we have the horses going out across all the land, even the north, to punish evil. There's a progression here and the visions are actually pretty straightforward, steve. Anything else in there that they could take away, these are just wonderful visions.
Speaker 2:These just aren't random visions that are going on here. There's a message that God is sending to the people there at that present time of Zechariah and also for future generations. Again, we pointed out how are you going to point out generalities that are going to take place centuries in the future? Well, you use these symbolic items that are talking about here in Zechariah.
Speaker 1:That brings us to the end of the series of visions in the first part of the book of Zechariah. So those visions were indeed apocalyptic. They're fantastic but, as we've seen, the meaning behind them is generally very clear. We could have some discussions about when they might occur, but there's no mystery in what these symbolic visions represent. It was quite clear going through them that God had a message for the people of Israel and he has a message for us today, as we've seen. Now, the next section, when we come to the next part, it's going to be turning a corner a little bit and he's going to have some messages about the Messiah. He's going to start talking about a temple and it's going to be a really great study. But we'll do that next time because we've run out of time here today, but we will be here reasoning through the book of Zechariah next time. Thank you so much for watching and listening.
Speaker 2:May God bless you.
