Reasoning Through the Bible
Taking a cue from Paul, Reasoning Through the Bible is an expository style walk through the Scriptures that tells you what the Bible says. Reviewing both Old and New Testament books, as well as topical subjects, the hosts methodically show how Scripture is one cohesive story. Critical Thinking with a little bit of theology and apologetics and you have what this podcast is about. Just like Paul on Mars Hill, Christianity today must address woke, deconstruction, and progressive Christianity, all topics that are addressed if we go purposefully through the Bible. Join Glenn and Steve weekly on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday as they reason with you through the Bible.
Reasoning Through the Bible
S5 || Guarded by Glory || Zechariah 2:1-9 || Session 5 || Verse by Verse Bible Study
Can the vision of a man with a measuring line in Zechariah's prophecy transform our understanding of Jerusalem's future glory? Explore with us as we unravel the profound implications of a city destined to thrive without walls, shielded by God's divine presence, echoing the miraculous protection during the Exodus. We promise you'll gain insights into how this prophecy links to biblical references from Jeremiah and Ezekiel, pointing towards a time when Jerusalem will bask in unparalleled divine glory. Additionally, we delve into the biblical theme of the kingdom of God, exploring calls for the Jewish people to return to Israel and their esteemed status as the "apple of God's eye," while reflecting on the spiritual journey from darkness to light with Christ's teachings as a guiding light. This episode illuminates the eternal nature of God's promises, offering a compelling narrative of restoration and protection that resonates with the faith journeys of both ancient and modern believers.
Welcome to Reasoning Through the Bible. Today we are in the Old Testament, book of Zechariah. So if you have your copy of the Word of God, turn there. As we'd seen in the last sessions, this is a very rich book, very practical book. The prophecies in it are very clear, even though we're in an apocalyptic section that has symbolism. The Word of God is quite clear on what the symbols are. We have here a great lesson in the Christian life, but also some practical theological things to go along with it. Let's go ahead and dive into Zechariah, chapter 2. Steve, can you read the first five verses?
Speaker 2:Then I lifted up my eyes and looked and behold, there was a man with a measuring line in his hand. I said when are you going? He said to me, to measure Jerusalem, to see how wide it is and how long it is. Behold, the angel who was speaking with me was going out. Another angel was coming out to meet him and said to him Run, speak to that young man saying Jerusalem will be inhabited without walls because of the multitude of men and cattle within it. For I declares, the Lord will be a wall of fire around her. I will be the glory in her midst, with this.
Speaker 1:The beginning of the chapter has a man with a measuring line, or some of the translations may say a surveyor's line. So, Steve, what is?
Speaker 2:he measuring? It sounds like he's measuring the dimensions of Jerusalem. Before you build anything, you get a surveyor out there to survey the land, to say here's how big it is where you're going to build. Do you have enough room? It gives the builders, the construction people, a guide on where they should start building. I think this also harkens back to chapter 1, verse 16, where God says I'll return to Jerusalem with compassion, my house will be built in it and a measuring line will be stretched over Jerusalem. So I think that this is kind of a pickup from what was referred to back in chapter 1.
Speaker 1:You're exactly right. The measuring line, or a surveying line, is just prior to doing some sort of work. You're going to build something or you're going to do some sort of work. He's measuring Jerusalem. This figure of speech, the measuring line, should have been familiar to Zechariah's listeners because that image, that picture, had been mentioned by some of the prophets before. Jeremiah 31, starting in verse 38, talks about measuring Jerusalem. In Ezekiel, chapter 40, starting in verse 2, measuring a new temple in Jerusalem. Then in the New Testament we also have a measuring line in Revelation, chapter 11, starting at the beginning of the chapter, measuring for a new temple. Here in Zechariah we've seen twice now there's a man with a measuring line measuring Jerusalem, measuring or surveying. God is going to do something. Verse 4 tells us what God is going to do in Jerusalem. What does he say he's going to?
Speaker 2:do. He says that Jerusalem is going to be inhabited without walls and because of the cattle and the people that are there, and that God himself is going to dwell, in that His glory is going to dwell there. It also says that he's going to protect it with a wall of fire. Now this harkens back to me, as when they came out of Egypt, when they came out of Egypt, he was a pillar of smoke by day and a pillar of fire at night. Whenever they were crossing the Red Sea, god was present as a pillar of fire that protected them from the Pharaoh's army. While they crossed the Red Sea. That's the picture I get here. The multitude is going to be so great and so large Think of a modern-day metropolis today and we don't have walled cities in the same sense that they had in 500 BC.
Speaker 1:We do not have walled cities. Back then they did. They needed walls to protect from invaders. At the time Zechariah writes, the walls had been torn down. Remember, Israel and Judah were taken away captive and the city laid in ruins for many years From the time Zechariah speaks about. 80 years later, Nehemiah comes and rebuilds the walls. When he says here that Jerusalem will be without walls, then we would take it as not speaking about Zechariah's day or immediately after, simply because not long after the walls get rebuilt. Therefore, we can't really say here that this is speaking about Jerusalem in that day. We would hold that.
Speaker 1:It's also not talking about something symbolic like the church, for a couple of reasons. One, in verse 2, they're measuring to see how wide and long it is. Then, in verse 4, there is a multitude of men and cattle in it. There's no symbolism here that would apply in a figurative sense or an allegorical sense to the church today of having cattle in it. That's a real stretch. There's just no place for that in Christian life today. That symbolism of cattle being in the church and measuring how wide and long, that's not how you measure Christianity.
Speaker 1:Also, there's not a time after Zechariah when Jerusalem was invincible due to God's protection. That's what he says here in verse 5. God says I will be a wall of protection around her. The intertestamental period there was a rebellion called the Maccabean rebellion. There was a family that started it that had the name Maccabees, but in that day the Greeks had come and taken over Jerusalem and driven the Maccabees out. They had to gather an army and come back in and retake it again. God wasn't a wall of fire around them then, Because it's talking about a physical measurement of Jerusalem with cattle in it. Therefore, it's not talking about the church and it's not talking about in the past. Therefore, this has to be future. Even if it were partially fulfilled in the past, it is yet to be completely fulfilled.
Speaker 2:In addition to him saying he'll be the wall of fire around it, he says in verse 5, I will be the glory in her midst. Now to me, glenn, this harkens back to God's residence in the temple. You've had a wonderful story about God's glory during Solomon's time and then during the period of where God's glory left from the temple. I think that's what this is referring to, that the glory of God is once again going to be dwelling in the midst of Jerusalem in a temple. That's where he dwelt before. I think that's where he's going to dwell once again. Is there in the midst of Jerusalem, in a temple that people come to worship? We're told about those type of things in Revelation and other prophetic scriptures also.
Speaker 1:I've always been fascinated by these large themes and large stories that cross over many books of the Bible and the glory of the Lord in and out of Jerusalem. The temple is one of those. The story starts way back in the Exodus, when the glory of the Lord led the people of Israel out of Egypt into the wilderness. To fire by night and the cloud by day. That was the glory of the Lord. It came down into the tabernacle with Moses and parked there. That was the guide for Israel in the wilderness.
Speaker 1:Later, when they built a physical temple, in the dedication ceremony in solomon's day in second chronicles 5, 14, the glory comes in when they dedicated the temple and it says there in that passage in second chronicles 5 the glory was so strong that the priest couldn't finish their work inside the temple. The glory was so powerful that they couldn't stand it. They couldn't stay there. They had to go outside the temple immediately when it was being dedicated. As Israel's history went on and Israel disobeyed God, then God took his glory away.
Speaker 1:The first part of the book of Ezekiel, the glory if you read starting in Ezekiel 9, and read through like verse 10, 18, and into chapter 11, the glory leaves the temple goes out to the gate of the temple, out to the gate of the city, out to the Mount of Olives. The glory leaves the temple. Here in the book of Zechariah, chapter 14, jesus returns. And in Zechariah 2.5, what we just read in Ezekiel 43, the glory returns to the temple and it returns to Jerusalem in the temple. This grand story of remember Jesus. Where did he ascend from? He ascended from the Mount of Olives, the same place that the glory went to back in Ezekiel.
Speaker 1:Therefore, because the glory was a physical thing during the Exodus, it was a physical thing in 2 Chronicles 5, when Solomon dedicated the temple, we take it here that it is a physical thing when it returns. It's not some sort of allegorical glory of the Lord that's in our hearts, because in the past it was a physical glory in the temple. He says here it's going to be a glory that returns. We hold that this is physical. If we don't, then we have a problem in our interpretation and our hermeneutics. These passages support the idea of a renewed Jerusalem in a kingdom on earth with Jesus on the throne in Jerusalem. It's the only way to have a consistent interpretation of the text without stretching the meaning of the words beyond their context, wouldn't you agree, steve? I absolutely would agree.
Speaker 2:That's the glory. That's the glory of God in the embodiment of Jesus' resurrected body, reigning on David's throne from the midst of Jerusalem and, of course, god protecting the city through Jesus. Jesus is God. That is all consistent with what we see here and it makes very good sense to me.
Speaker 1:Now back to the practical sense here in this passage. Remember where they are in the history. Israel had been taken away. The Jewish people had been taken away into captivity into Babylon and Assyria as punishment by God for not obeying his laws. So the city of Jerusalem had been decimated and it had been that way for 70 years.
Speaker 1:The angel in chapter 1 cries out how long, o Lord, before you do something about this? Here God says look, I'm surveying, I'm about to do something. There's going to come a time when my glory is in Jerusalem and I'm going to have a wall of fire around her and I'm going to protect Jerusalem from her enemies. How hard would it be, steve, for the Jewish people in that context to believe the prophet? Because the prophet is speaking to a people that was really sort of down and depressed. They're flat on their backs spiritually and financially because their city was in ruins, their culture was in ruins, their religion was in ruins. Now you have a prophet saying I'm speaking for God and God's going to come back, he's going to rebuild the city and God's going to be your protection. How hard would it be for the average Jewish citizens to believe the prophet? You?
Speaker 2:always had the remnant, meaning the ones that stayed true and faithful in their belief with Yahweh, with their God.
Speaker 2:I think for them, in their belief with Yahweh, with their God, I think for them it is something that would be encouraging to them. Zechariah is not the first prophet that speaks about the Messiah coming and sitting on a restored throne of David. For those that have stayed consistently faithful, it's an encouragement to those Now, to those who have wavered through the years. I think they could take encouragement from it. But there might be some, just like there are today, saying yeah, well, where was God whenever he took us out of captivity, even though they've been given an explanation of why they've been put into captivity. As with anything through any era, I think you have a gamut of people that are faithful, stay faithful, the remnant to the wide spectrum where the people have fallen away from God and don't really believe that God is going to rescue them. I think you have those type of emotions that are going on, but through all of it, at least God is giving them encouragement and something they can believe in through another prophet, zechariah here.
Speaker 1:The Jewish people in that day couldn't see physically what Zechariah was promising or what God was promising through Zechariah, but nevertheless these promises were there. The promise was God says I'm going to protect you, I'm going to protect you, I'm going to be with you, I'm going to put my glory in your city and there's going to be an overflowing of people and cattle's wealth. That's what he's saying. We should believe God when he tells us we can't see all of God's promises, but nevertheless he's promised them. We can have faith in him because he's been faithful to us so far that we can believe the things that he has not yet revealed to us. Then, if we look in verse five, here's the question who is responsible for protecting Jerusalem?
Speaker 2:God is responsible. He says I will be the wall of fire around Jerusalem.
Speaker 1:Who is responsible in our day for keeping the church and protecting us and our hearts? Who is responsible for protecting Christians today?
Speaker 2:Jesus Christ is responsible, who is God? And he's given us the Holy Spirit, who is God, as well as a comforter to give us peace and to walk with us during our Christian walk here on earth.
Speaker 1:When he says here in Zechariah 2.5 that I will be in their midst and it will be a city without walls, what he's saying is the normal physical protections aren't going to protect you, but I will. I will be the one that protects you. It's not their work, their strength that's going to protect their city. It'd have to be God. It's really the same message all the way back to the entire history of the Jewish people. God said from the very beginning I will be your protection. Just trust me, obey my commands and I will be your protection. So he's repeating that here, going all the way back. Even after all these centuries of disobedience, he's still coming back saying I will protect you. Their strength cannot protect themselves. Is our salvation won or kept by our own strength, or is it from?
Speaker 2:God. It is not kept on our own strength. It is kept by God. God is the one who declares us righteous when we express that faith in him, just as he did with Abraham, and therefore he's also the one that keeps our salvation.
Speaker 1:In this passage, God is saying I'm going to come back. I'm surveying the city, so I'm going to come back. I'm going to do a great work. I'm going to be back. I'm surveying the city, so I'm going to come back. I'm going to do a great work. I'm going to be in your midst, I'm going to be your protection and the city will prosper because of that. Zechariah 2.6 says that there will be a time when Jerusalem has no walls and is not defended by its own strength. God will be in the midst of Jerusalem and be its protection.
Speaker 2:Let me add just one last thing in this, glenn, before we move on. Your previous question is what about the people, and could they believe in these promises that were being given to them even though around them Jerusalem was in ruins? If you move forward into Acts after the resurrection of Jesus, jesus appears to them and to his disciples in Acts 1.6. They ask him. They say now, lord, is it the time that you're going to restore the kingdom of Israel? This is a theme, as we talked about before, through many, many prophets, that there was going to be a restored kingdom. We know for sure that the Israelites believed it, because we had that question from his disciples right after his resurrection, saying now is the time. There's still an expectation from the faithful Jewish people that there is going to be a restored kingdom of David.
Speaker 1:Right there, what you mentioned when the apostles approached Jesus just prior to the ascension, is it now, lord? He didn't say, oh, you don't get it. It's really an internal, spiritual kingdom. There's not going to be a physical, earthly one. No, he doesn't say that. That would have been the opportune time to teach that. His answer was what His answer was. It's not for you to know the answer to that right now. For now, just stay there.
Speaker 1:The other key passage about the kingdom is in the parable of the Minas, in Luke, chapter 19, where he is very clearly saying there that the people around him expected the kingdom to come now. This was just days or hours prior to the cross. They expected the kingdom to come now. He tells this parable of the minas where the landowner, the Christ figure, goes off to receive a kingdom and then come back. The clear teachings about the kingdom is that it's coming.
Speaker 1:Let's go now and read the next section in Zechariah, chapter 2, starting in verse 6. God gives a word of encouragement to the Jewish people on what he's going to do next. Ho, there, flee from the land of the north, declares the Lord, for I have dispersed you as the four winds of the heavens, declares the Lord Ho Zion, escape you who are living with the daughter of Babylon. For thus says the Lord of hosts After glory, he has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches you touches the apple of his eye. For behold, I will wave my hand over them so that they will be plunder for their slaves. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent me. Sing for joy and be glad, o daughter of Zion, for behold, I am coming and will dwell in your midst, declares the Lord With this at the beginning of that section. Steve, what is God telling them?
Speaker 2:to do. He's telling them to return. When he says flee from the north, he's actually saying come back into the land. There's been many things that have been interpreted as far as what does this mean from the north? But in any case it's always people coming back into the land. Even though they were coming from Babylon and returning from Babylon, they would still come west, across over into the Mediterranean Sea area and then turn south down into Jerusalem, because there's a large desert area there between directly east of Jerusalem and the Israel area. This idea of flee from the north really means come back into the land of Israel.
Speaker 1:He's very clear about that. Verse 6 says flee from the land of the north. The very next verse 7, specifically says escape from Babylon. There's no question of the immediate context of what he's talking about. There were Jews that had returned from Assyria and Babylon and were in the land, but there were still many of them that were still scattered in Babylon. He's saying come back, come back to the land. I was about to do a great work. Whenever the Jews are in that land, then they are in God's will, at least in the sense of the physical location. Whenever they leave the land, they're outside of God's will. That's always been the case and it is still today. Is there a message that God gives Christians in the church today, telling us to come out of something? What are we today to come out of or flee from?
Speaker 2:We are to flee from sin. In Colossians, paul says that we have been rescued and taken from the darkness and brought into the light. Jesus Christ has done that. Whenever we're in Christ, we have those attributes that he talks about in Colossians. That is for us in today's Christian church age. For us, we are to come out of the darkness of sin and evil and come into the light of safety and salvation of God.
Speaker 1:Not only are we to come out of sin, but we are to come out of the world. 1 John 2 talks about fleeing from the things of the world and do not be in love with the things of the world, but depart from the things of the world into the things of Christ. We are to come out of sin and worldliness and be into Christ. That's the message here. Just like he told the ancient Jews to come out of Babylon, which is the representation of the worldly ways, the Gentile ways, he's telling us today in the church, to the representation of the worldly ways, the gentile ways, he's telling us today in the church to come out of the world. We have to be in the world, but we do not have to be of the world. That's his message to us today. Notice that the end of verse 8, god says israel is the apple of my eye. Now that phrase is still used in english today is somebody's the apple over your eye? Well, where'd it come from? Well, it came from the Bible.
Speaker 1:The Bible is good literature as well as good spiritual teaching. To the Jews in Babylon, god is telling them come out, go back to Israel. I'll be your protection because you are the apple of my eye. God had scattered Israel. Now he's calling them back. You're the apple of my eye. They may not have felt like the apple of his eye because they had been under 70 years of punishment because of their disobedience, but he's remembering his people all the way back to Abraham. He had promised Abraham's descendants that they would get the land forever. Here he is come back to the land. You're the apple of my eye. He talks about this same concept in Ezekiel, chapter 36. He's going to draw his people back to the land. So, since there are still many Jews scattered throughout the world, the final fulfillment of this is yet to be fulfilled.
Speaker 2:The apple of the eye is the pupil of the eye. It's the most sensitive part of the eye. The concept here is that God is very sensitive about how his people are treated, because he has made these promises to them and he has promised to protect them. He has promised to be their God. This is a concept of the apple of my eyes, not just that they're favored by him, but he's sensitive to how they've been treated, not just here, but also all throughout all the ages.
Speaker 1:Let's look at verse 8 and 9 again. Let's read those again, just to be clear. Verse 8, for thus says the Lord of hosts, after glory, he has sent me against the nations which plunder you, for he who touches you touches the apple of his eye. For behold, I will wave my hand over them so that they will be plunder for their slaves. Then he will know that the Lord of hosts has sent me. Many will know that the Lord of hosts has sent me, steve.
Speaker 1:The picture there is that you've got a family with a servant or a slave, and what's supposed to happen is the leader of the household is in charge of the slaves, and anybody that's been in a culture that has a lot of servants. Well, it's very clear who the servants are and who the masters of the house are. What he's saying is all these nations around you. All I have to do is wave my hand. I just wave my hand and they're going to be so decimated that their servants, their slaves, are going to be plundering their stuff. So, steve, who is it that is in charge of raising up nations and taking them down again?
Speaker 2:God. It's very clear that Yahweh is the one that is in charge of that. Plenty of scripture talks about that. He raises nations up and takes them down. Here, that wave of my hand. At the very end of it he says then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent me. Now. We would take that to mean that that's Jesus when he comes again on his second coming as we refer to it. But it's clear that in the first part there of verse 9, that Israel is going to be protected by God supernaturally. There's going to be supernatural things that are going to happen at a time whenever they need him to protect them against these nations. When that happens, then they're going to know that it's Jesus their Messiah.
Speaker 1:In Zechariah. You have to pay close attention to know who's speaking, because there's several people in the vision. But if we look at verses 8 and 9 again, then we can tell some very clear things about what Steve had just said. Look again at the beginning of verse 8. For thus says the Lord of hosts In our English translation, it has Lord in all caps. Well, that is the very name of God Yahweh. In most of the translations they put in Lord in all caps. Well, that is no less than God Almighty that is speaking. Thus says the Lord. Then it says in that sentence thus says the Lord he has sent me. Well, god Almighty isn't sent by a created being. That's not how God works. So later in verse 9, when he's talking about I'm going to wave my hand and they will know that the Lord of hosts has sent me.
Speaker 1:Therefore, this is the Trinity. It's giving the first and second persons of the Trinity here, with God the Father sending God the Son. They're both here. A monarchianism, a single person interpreted into this passage is no less than complete confusion. The only way it makes any sense at all is to have two persons that are both the one.
Speaker 1:God, the Trinity is in the Old Testament and it says it right here God the Father sends God the Son, because the Lord sends the Lord, yahweh sends Yahweh, and it speaks in second-person pronouns and first-person pronouns. Therefore, the Trinity is in here. What's really beautiful in the whole thing, steve is in here. What's really beautiful in the whole thing, steve, is that these were the people that were down on their backs he sent in the previous visions. He came down in the ravine, under the myrtle trees, and here he's saying come on back, come back from all the decimation that you experienced in Babylon. I'm going to be the one that's going to protect Jerusalem. I'm going to put a wall of fire around it. You're going to be overflowing with people and cattle and it's going to be good times again. All I have to do is wave my hand and the enemies will go away. Steve, that's just such a great great teaching.
Speaker 2:It is a great teaching and it's good to see that God gives them encouragement. We've talked about the land. Who is the actual land owner there? It's God. It's his land and his land to give. He's made a promise that he's going to give it to these Israelite as a nation and he comes back here in Zechariah, as well as he does in plenty of other prophets, and gives them confidence that, yes, they're going to dwell in the land once again.
Speaker 1:Where we stopped reading was right in the middle of a speech. Yahweh is still speaking. We're going to pick up where we left off next time, as we reason through the Bible.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for watching and listening. May God bless you.
