Reasoning Through the Bible
Taking a cue from Paul, Reasoning Through the Bible is an expository style walk through the Scriptures that tells you what the Bible says. Reviewing both Old and New Testament books, as well as topical subjects, the hosts methodically show how Scripture is one cohesive story. Critical Thinking with a little bit of theology and apologetics and you have what this podcast is about. Just like Paul on Mars Hill, Christianity today must address woke, deconstruction, and progressive Christianity, all topics that are addressed if we go purposefully through the Bible. Join Glenn and Steve weekly on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday as they reason with you through the Bible.
Reasoning Through the Bible
S3 || Understanding Zechariah's Symbolism || Zechariah 1:7-12 || Session 3 || Verse by Verse Bible Study
Click Here for RTTB Zechariah Chapter One Markup
Click Here for RTTB's Session on The Angel of the Lord
Can biblical symbols really represent tangible realities, or are we simply projecting our own interpretations? Tune in to discover how the apocalyptic visions of Zechariah, especially those in the first chapter, hold significant meaning when grounded in textual analysis rather than spiritualized interpretation. We tackle the profound themes of God's enduring surveillance and compassion, highlighted through the striking imagery of multicolored horses, comparing these symbols to the vivid depictions found in Revelation. As we explore perspectives like preterism, amillennialism, and premillennialism, we aim to provide clarity on whether these visions speak to past, present, or future events, and how some symbols may unfold in both historical and future contexts. Journey with us through the profound symbolism of Zechariah, offering a richer understanding of God's presence and promises using the text of God's Word as our guide.
Hello and welcome to Reasoning Through the Bible, where we do verse-by-verse and often phrase-by-phrase exegesis of the Word of God. Today we are in the Old Testament, book of Zechariah, chapter 1. If you have your copy of the Bible, turn there. We are to the point in the book of Zechariah where we will start explaining a series of visions. Zechariah was given a series of visions, apocalyptic visions, which just means they have a lot of symbolism about future events, so we want to go through these in detail Before we just jump right into the visions. A little bit of setup on this. Some of this we touched on briefly in the intro session, steve, but I wanted to, just before we get into all of the symbolism, touch on a couple of things. First of all, what we're about to read and study. Yes, there's symbolism. We need to understand, though, that symbolism in the Bible is really symbolism.
Speaker 1:Anywhere is a symbol of something. Symbols are symbols of something real, something that is tangible. We will see a symbol, but it is not a symbol of nothing. It's not a symbol of just vapor and smoke and nothing, and it's also not a symbol that we could just pour into a symbol any meaning that we desire If we're driving along in our car and see a stop sign. Well, that stop sign is a symbol of a law that says when you get to this point, you have to stop your car. The stop sign is a symbol, but it's a symbol of something real. There's a set of rules about what has to go around stopping a vehicle or any other symbol in life, the symbol for restrooms and the symbol for different things. They're all symbols of something real.
Speaker 1:What we can't do is just go pour our own meaning into these symbols. Say, we see a stop sign. Well, what I think it means is go fast. No, that's a wrong interpretation of the symbol. So we end up with these symbols in these visions that we're about to see. But the symbols are generally pretty clear because the text explains what the symbols mean for the most part. We'll get to some of those today, possibly, but as we go through we'll point out. As a general rule, the Bible explains what the symbols mean.
Speaker 2:Two things related to these symbols. One is just what you said. If you keep reading in the text, most of the time it'll explain what the symbol is. Another thing is that how this is written 500 BC before the birth of Christ. How is it that you relay some of the things that are going to happen centuries later, and in some cases 25 plus centuries later? Nations' names changes, geographies change. When you have a generic symbol, such as the horns that are referring to the nations, then you can put forth with that and add the historical knowledge that we have and know which those nations were. It's a way for Scripture to be able to still impact people throughout the centuries and even into the day and age that we're sitting here going through this book of Zechariah.
Speaker 1:Next, we need to be aware that well-meaning, good-hearted, smart, intelligent Bible teachers over the centuries have sometimes disagreed on how to apply these visions. Were they past, were they present or were they future? There's different terms for people that have these different views. If someone is a preterist, that just means they're going to be looking at things and trying to fit them into a place in the past and history. Either the intertestamental period, in between the Old Testament and New Testament. There was a period where there was a Jewish military uprising called the time of the Maccabees. There was a family whose last name was Maccabee and they started a rebellion and were somewhat successful in driving out some of the Gentiles. Then there's the preterists. Also look to cataclysmic events that happened in the first century between Israel and Rome.
Speaker 1:Some people would look at this and say, well, these events happened in the past and they would try to fit these visions into that. Other people say, well, these are symbols of the church age and they would try to fit these visions into that. Other people say, well, these are symbols of the church age and the Christian life today and the wonderful life in Christ. So that person would be called an amillennialist, and an amillennial just would say, hey, these are symbolic of the church age and it's symbolic of our life in Christ. So when it would talk about nations coming up against enemies, then it's an enemy in our life, in Christian life today. They're looking to apply it to today. Then there's people that would say, no, it's future. It's future that these are events that would happen when Christ come back.
Speaker 1:There's a couple of different versions of that pre-millennial and post-millennial. Those are large categories of people. What we're going to do as we go along, we're not going to try to be tedious with this, but we are going to try to, from the text itself, try to say okay, here's why we believe that this particular passage or this particular symbol or vision was in the past, the present or the future. And why? Because usually, again, the text will tell us whether this was something in the past, present or future. Or sometimes there's even a double fulfillment, where there was a fulfillment in the past and a fulfillment in the future. That's sometimes possible. Just a reminder our audience we're going to be mentioning this as we go through the textual clues generally tell us whether this was past, present or future.
Speaker 2:A little bit of clarification the past or future. The reference point is the time and day and age that we are sitting here going through the scripture. Because the scripture itself, the events are going to be something that has happened. Because the scripture itself, the events are going to be something that has happened in the future from Zechariah's time. But you're talking about past or still future events, from the time that we are now sitting here going through the Bible.
Speaker 1:Correct. Many things were future to Zechariah but could have been fulfilled already in his immediate time, or prior to Christ, or with Christ. With that, the first vision is going to be the vision of some horses with some angels. Steve, could you read Zechariah, chapter 1, verses 7 through 17?
Speaker 2:On the 24th day of the 11th month, which is the month Shabbat, in the second year of Darius, the word of the Lord came to Zechariah, the prophet, the son of Berechiah, the son of Edu, as follows I saw at night and behold, a man was riding on a red horse and he was standing among the myrtle trees which were in the ravine, with red sorrel and white horses behind him. Then I said, my Lord, what are these? The angel who was speaking with me said to me I will show you what these are. The man who was standing among the myrtle trees answered and said these are those whom the Lord has sent to patrol the earth. They answered the angel of the Lord who was standing among the myrtle trees and said we have patrolled the earth and behold, all the earth is peaceful and quiet.
Speaker 2:Then the angel of the Lord said O Lord of hosts, how long will you have no compassion for Jerusalem and the cities of Judah with which you have been indignant these seventy years? The Lord answered the angel who was speaking with me with gracious words, comforting words. The angel who was speaking with me said to me, proclaim, saying Thus says the Lord of hosts I am exceedingly jealous for Jerusalem and Zion. But I am very angry with the nations who are at ease, for while I was only a little angry, they furthered the disaster. Therefore, thus says the Lord, I will return to Jerusalem with compassion, my house will be built in it, declares the Lord of hosts, and a measuring line will be stretched over Jerusalem Again proclaim saying Thus says the Lord of hosts, my cities will again overflow with prosperity and the Lord will again comfort Zion and again choose Jerusalem.
Speaker 1:This vision, at the beginning of it again repeats a similar thing that was in the very first verse. He gives the day, the month, the year of the prophecy, who it was given to, who was king at the time. It's a historical documentation of this prophecy and we can corroborate the events around it. It gives a factual support for the reality and the historical accuracy of when it was given. The Word of God does this. It gives us enough support, enough facts, enough historical corroboration that we can trust the Word of God. Can you just give a summary of all of that? We have these horses. What was the basic vision? If we were to just summarize that?
Speaker 2:The basic vision in these verses is that Zechariah is looking out in an area of myrtle trees and there's a horseman there that's on a red horse, standing in those myrtle trees, and he has some white horses that are behind him, along with a sorrel horse as well. He's asking the angel who is apparently there that he's talking to, and with who are these guys? What are they? They answer back and say these are beings who the Lord Yahweh sends out to patrol the earth. And that's the message that's given to Zechariah from this angel that is standing with him and also this angel of the Lord that is there in the myrtle trees.
Speaker 1:At first glance, visions always sound and seem rather fantastic. But if we just look at it, what it's saying, the meaning kind of pops out. It's actually quite clear. First of all, saying the meaning kind of pops out, it's actually quite clear. First of all, look at verse 8. There's a rider, a main rider, with some other horses, and it says there this rider is standing amongst the myrtle trees, in a ravine. A ravine is like a low spot, it's like a drainage area, it's a hole in the ground. That's a ravine. Myrtle trees are rather small, they're not grand trees, they're rather small trees. This rider is on this horse underneath these smallish trees, down in a ravine.
Speaker 1:Now, if you were to be a conqueror, in those days, horses were signs of military action. Military people rode horses, kings rode doggies and everybody else walked With this. These are people that were doing military type things. But where are they? They're down in a ravine, under low trees, myrtle trees. If this was a conquering general, you would expect them to be on a white horse on the top of a hill with the flag waving, and he's standing under a majestic oak tree or a giant cedar tree. That would be the symbol of a conquering general. But they're not that. It's not the symbol of a conquering general. They're down in a ravine, under low trees, myrtle trees.
Speaker 1:That speaks to the fact that, of course, these are from God. They are down where the people are. Remember where Israel is. Israel as a nation has about its lowest point that it could be. It's scattered amongst the nations. They didn't really have a city yet. They didn't have a country. Some of them had come back, some of them were still scattered in Babylon. The nation Israel as a country was at a low point. This tells us that God came down to them. God came down to them. He didn't expect them to go up to the top of the mountain where God is. No, no, god came down to them. That's what I see there, steve, and it tells us in verse 10, the purpose of these horses was what see?
Speaker 2:there, steve, and it tells us in verse 10, the purpose of these horses was what? They were there to patrol the earth. The beings that were on these horses to go out and look and see how the earth is and give a report back as to what it is. And they give a report that the earth at this time is at peace. A little bit later, in those other verses, it's a word of encouragement to the nation of Israel, because the question that the angel of the Lord who's in amongst the myrtle trees asks is oh Lord of hosts, yahweh, how much longer are you going to let this oppression of Jerusalem take place? The answer that comes back that we'll talk about here in a little bit more detail is one of encouragement that God is still with and desires the nation of Israel and Jerusalem because he considers them his.
Speaker 2:So, throughout this whole set of verses, at the beginning of this vision, I think it's a word of encouragement. They're in a low spot. They've come back from the captivity in Babylon, started to rebuild their temple at this point, but the walls are still down. We know that from Nehemiah, who is a little bit later in time frame to what Zechariah is, and it's a word back to them. Go and tell them, being the people of Israel, I'm still with you. I still desire Jerusalem is still a city that I desire and that it's going to be a great city. Once again, encouragement.
Speaker 1:The writer is down in a ravine and he's asking the question that you just mentioned, steve. He's pleading with the father Father, how long are you going to leave these people without delivering them? He has compassion for the Jewish people. That tells us that, whoever this is, we'll talk about it. That has come down on this horse. He's down in a low spot and he's feeling the low emotions of the people of Israel pleading the case upward to the Father. That tells us that God knows about their issues and he has come down to them to plead their case. He also tells us, again, the horses were to go out to patrol the earth. Go out to patrol the earth.
Speaker 1:Patrol is a military word that a squad of soldiers, squad of military people, will go out from the headquarters to do a patrol. What do they do on patrol? They gather information. If there's an enemy they might encounter and engage the enemy. They might learn information and bring it back. That's a patrol. That's what they're doing. Might learn information and bring it back. That's a patrol. That's what they're doing. They're down on patrol looking at things on the earth. Steve, does God know about things on the earth? He sent out a patrol to do reconnaissance, to learn about things on the earth. He knows about the Jewish people and he has come down to them in the low spot. He's pleading their case because they are loved. Does God know what's going on? The Jewish people at this point could rightfully say God forgot about us. Has God forgotten?
Speaker 2:about them. He absolutely hasn't forgotten about them. He tells them there that he has compassion for Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, not only here. This is an indication that God has beings that go out and give reports back to him. Of course, god is all-knowing, he knows what's going on and we can see this. He doesn't necessarily have to have beings go out and look and then come back to him and give him a report. Come back to him and give him a report. I think this is a description for us as human beings to know that God does know what's going on in our earth and has compassion on things for the people that worship him and honor him.
Speaker 2:Over in the New Testament, jesus says if a father knows that a sparrow falls, how much more is he going to know what your troubles and the situation that you're in? Over in Job, we see the accuser. Satan is there and God asks him where have you been? He says I've been out, walking to and fro on the earth seeing what's going on. We have this picture of God knowing what's going on here. He's not a creator who has receded back into the heavens and doesn't have anything to do with the people here on earth. No, he's very much involved with the people here on earth. He's very much involved with the nation of Israel. He's very much involved with our lives and our day and age and the believers in Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:The Jews had been judged and sent to Babylon and God was silent for 70 years. It would easy for the Jews to believe that God forgot about us, but he's sending this prophet saying I haven't forgot about you, my friend. Are you at a place where it's been a while since you've heard from God and you're in a low spot? And God says that he is patrolling the earth and he has come down into the ravine under the low trees. He's telling us that he knows about us and he is pleading our case before the Lord. That is a tremendous, tremendous lesson for us.
Speaker 1:Today let's talk about Steve, the color of these horses, because that comes up and my mind immediately goes over to the book of Revelation. That also has colored horses. But if we look at those two contexts, these horses and the colored horses in Revelation have a very different purpose. We'll deal with the ones in Revelation when we get there. Yes, it's horses and yes, they're colored horses, but that's as far as it goes. The purpose for them are different.
Speaker 1:Now it's very possible that Revelation picks up on this theme of colored horses and uses that for a different purpose. But the horses in Revelation are not the same purpose as the horses here in Zechariah the horses. Here it says we have this man on a red horse. It also talks about other horses that are red sorrel and white. Sorrel is sort of a brownish red or brownish yellow color. It's sort of a mixture.
Speaker 1:Think of it. The first thing you see is you have some that are red, some that are white and some that are sort of a mixture. Just that tells us that there's some confusion, there's some differences. Things aren't just all one way. So that's one of the themes that we're going to pick up through. This is that the world is not all just one way. There's differences going on.
Speaker 1:When we see red, we tend to think of blood and war. That is what red typically would remind us of. A white horse speaks of a glorious victory. As we mentioned before, we think of a conquering general riding a white horse. In the book of Revelation, jesus comes as a conquering leader riding on a white horse. Here we just see differences. We see some things that could mean there's battles going on, some things that say there's some people that have won the battles, and some mixture of things. That's what we see here.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't go too far drawing meaning out of these colors, because the text doesn't go too far drawing meaning out of those. We can draw some things, but one of the principles for interpreting these visions is when the text doesn't go off into too much detail, then we try to not go off into too much speculation. What the passage in the vision does say, and is quite clear, is that they're out on patrol, which tells us they have come back to report. As we see, this man on the red horse set these other horses out to patrol. They come back and they report on what's going on in the earth. That tells us that God is inspecting and monitoring what goes on in the world. He's watching for enemies, he's ensuring what happens and ensuring peace. We know, therefore, god knows what goes on around the earth. Nothing is going to catch God unawares.
Speaker 1:Then, in verse 11, it uses this term the angel of the Lord, the angel of Yahweh, whenever it has the Lord, in all caps it's using the name of God Yahweh. We would hold, would we not, steve, that this angel of the Lord in verse 11 is the pre-incarnate Christ. We know that from a study of the angel of the Lord I think we did a special session on this at times past but it's always described as Yahweh. Whenever you see the angel of the Lord and not an angel of the Lord, it's generally talking about a physical manifestation of God that has appeared to us. That is God. That's happened a double handful of times throughout the Old Testament.
Speaker 2:We did do a special session on who is the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament and we'll put a link to that session in our description for this session that we're doing here. Then we make a case as to what it was you were just talking about, and so, yes, we see that God has this patrol out noting what's going on the earth, and again, it's not so that he can know he's omniscient, he already knows. It's a double meaning from the standpoint that it gives us security, knowing that he does have patrols that are out. It also tells us that there are patrols out watching and seeing what's going on. Well, if they're watching and seeing what's going on in general, they're also watching and seeing what's going on with us and in our lives as well.
Speaker 1:When we look at the passage, we see in verse 8 that there's a man on a red horse and the language it says there is he is standing amongst the myrtle trees. That same phrase standing amongst the myrtle trees is used in verse 10 of the man standing on the myrtle trees. In verse 11, it talks about the angel of the Lord standing in the myrtle trees. In verse 11, talks about the angel of the Lord standing in the myrtle trees. In these passages it's sometimes a little difficult to know who exactly is speaking, but we take that to be that the man standing in the myrtle trees is on the horse, is called the angel of the Lord Because of this place and in other places in the Bible we would hold this to be the pre-incarnate Christ of Jesus that is in charge here. He is in charge, we know, because we presume there's beings on them that have come back and are reporting to him.
Speaker 1:At a minimum it's somebody that's in charge the man on the red horse and the angel of the Lord that's standing in the myrtle trees. They are in charge. The other beings that have gone out on the other horses have come back and reporting to them. We have here God in charge. He's getting information, he's coming back. Verses 8 and 10, the rider on the red horse was a man. Verse 11, that rider was the angel of the Lord, most probably the pre-incarnate Christ. It tells us that Christ comes down to us in the lowly places and he is in charge of things. Tremendous, tremendous lesson.
Speaker 2:We went through and marked up the text in these first two chapters of tracking the pronouns that are used. First two chapters of tracking the pronouns that are used. Look at the resources page on our site and look for this particular markup that we have in Zechariah. But you can look at it as a resource as you follow along with us in these sessions.
Speaker 1:The other reason why I would hold when it says the angel of the Lord to be the pre-incarnate Christ is because, if we look at verse 12, what is he doing? He's pleading the case of the Jewish people before the Father. How long will it be before you have mercy on Jerusalem and Judah? You were angry for 70 years. How long will it be? He's pleading their case. He is an intercessor, steve, who is our primary intercessor over in the New Testament.
Speaker 2:Our primary intercessor today is Jesus Christ. When we say Christ, that's the transliteration of the Greek word Christos, which means the anointed one. In Hebrew, it would be the Messiah. That's who we are saying is the pre-incarnate Messiah, who is Jesus himself.
Speaker 1:The Jewish people had seen God's anger for 70 years. They had seen God's judgment, God's hand of judgment and punishment on them for their disobedience. Now we have the angel of the Lord coming down into the lowly ravine pleading their case before God. How long will it be, O Lord, before you have mercy on these people? When we see hard times, Can we take encouragement that God will come and plead our case? We have today, as always, a need for people to realize that God is compassionate. We have a lot of messages about God's compassion in our churches. That's good. What we also see in the first chapter of Zechariah is God's anger, and God's anger is not a pleasant message. Pleasant messages aren't always preached in our churches today, but we have both God's hand of judgment and anger, but we also have God's compassion and his intercession and his reaching down to us, pleading our case back up to the righteous judge. Is that an accurate picture today, Steve? What should we take away from that in our churches today?
Speaker 2:Not only those two things anger and compassion, it's also a picture of his faithfulness to the promises that he's made. That's what he's saying return to me and I'll return to you the pleading that is there from the angel of the Lord. How long are you going to let this go on? The subsequent verses that are going to talk about how Jerusalem and the cities of Judah are once again going to be ones that he brings to himself. So it talks about his faithfulness to the promises he made. If God is not faithful to the promises he made to the nation of Israel, how can we be assured of the promises that have been made to us related to eternal life and Jesus Christ? Those are the things that are there, I think, that are shown in these first few verses of chapter one of Zechariah.
Speaker 1:Such wonderful, wonderful, rich ground that we can draw such great meaning to our lives today and our churches today and our families. We're going to stop here today because of time, but we're going to pick up right there next time as we continue to reason through the Bible.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for watching and listening. May God bless you.
